jake pogrebinsky

OK,i've very carefully read everything above,and am also puzzled.Can't find anything off in either with what you,Beth,are doing,or any of the sound advice. The time factor seems suspect to me as well as to you guys here.And one thing that can derive from that may be the change in the fire underneath. One thing that you may try,Beth:Make yourself a simple,right-angle poker,nice and long so your hand's not too uncomfortable,with an angled part about 6-8" long.Sharpen the end to a fairly sharp point.It'll serve two important functions: 1.You feel with it UNDERNEATH,(and around ) your work as it's heating.The purpose is to detect a hollow spot in the fire,and fill it from the sides with already actively burning fuel. 2.By heating the point hot(it kinda gets that way as you rummage inside your fire),you start TESTING with it.Right at the face of your scarf,or close around.Ideally,it will stick so hard as to be almost able to lift the work out by that bond.By constantly testing,you may even keep on doing that using a test-piece,see where the welding range starts,continues,and possibly ends,too(overheating,oxidising atmosphere,some other evil). Unfortunately,that's all that i can think of,right now.But i'll keep on trying to muddle through it. About flux:It's also yet another testing medium.You can use it to test the atmosphere in your fire,not even necessarily on your work itself. Flux a disposable test-chunk,and heat it next to your work,or as a separate trial run. If it's melting,and at welding heat gets active,squiggly and running little bubbles,if the surface of it is shiny,you have the correct,Reducing Atmosphere. If at high heat it's molten surface appears dry,bluish-greyish,spotty,and there's no gloss or play at the surface(molten butter-like),that means that somehow you have a destructive to welding Oxydising Atmosphere,for whatever reason. That is one of the most valuable sides to using the flux(borax or boric acid). Beth,when something makes itself tough to get,it only means that you'll really incorporate the lesson deeper than otherwise.The bigger the lump-the sweeter the lesson,trust this old masochist!:)

Curse be upon Thee,who throwest videos about, as if all of us,equally,been blessed with the high-speed internet! But,i IMAGINE it to be quite spectacular! Good for you,Michael,to have the capacity for such gauge stuff-right on! :P

Dave,this is the coolest post ever!Thanks for so much valuable data,and i fervently hope that you'll continue with this project,and keep the rest of us in the loop,too! What, exactly,are the "wedged" joints? No hurry,i'll be following this with great interest,and hopefully find out in time. Again,thanks a lot for such marvelous post!

Rockstar,you're right in that the longer the tool,the better your aim and the control of it,in keeping it straight,among other factors. BUT,the drawback is that if that one tool is longer than all else that you use,then it'd also take a special anvil(height-wise).Else,you'll hurt your arm,or look foolish balancing on top of a bucket(my proprietary technique). (I'll just insert some spotty thoughts here,too lazy to systematise them...). The reason that the slitter or a chisel are different tools from a drift is that they're usually something decent around med-C,and the drift is a big old chunk of crap mild(easier to come across as well as to shape). Peter is very correct,the proportions such as the one between the slitter and the corresponding to it drift are quantifiable,and charted.The two tools really are a set,one set of them for each size/shape opening. Upsetting the slitted stock is easy,and is actually a necessary part of the making of some types of mortices,in joinery of iron.What helps in that is to close the slit back up,somewhat,getting the sides of it straight and parallel to each other,and to the direction in which you're banging on them .The extent to which one does it,in many instances,is to where the slit becomes a round hole.At that stage the material displaced out of the sides during slitting is upset back into them,making each 50% of the parent stock,or slightly more(as some will again be lost in drifting.However,you need not do it to that extent,for your specific purpose.). What CAN cause the un-drifted(and/or undriftable)ends of the slit is,among other factors,your Temperature Range.The sides of the split will move(forge,elongate)easier than the drift can be forced into the ends of the split.Remember,the sides are what you're "pushing" against,it is they that provide the resistance necessary. The many solutions to all this are listed above,each of the previous posts covering one or more of them.I'll add the one that hasn't been mentioned yet: The front of an axe eye(end closest to the blade)carries NO mechanical load.It's shape is superfluous. For that reason many makers,old and current,have chose to let all the difficult to avoid fudge to go there. Also,it's difficult to get to,as the blade is attached to it . For that reason you'll see many tomahawks with very poor to indifferent fit at the front of eye,and on many old(and some modern)wrapped construction axes the crack of the beginning of the weld there is left in place,and ignored.It contributes or subtracts nothing of the physics of the striking tool. So,one chooses the (vastly)more important end of an eye,the back,or the poll end,for a good fit to the haft. To insure it,simply pound on it as you're drifting,as per Grant's advise,and you'll be in God's pocket. Best of luck.Make a bunch of axes!Good on you for attempting the compression fit of the haft,it's got a lot going for it!(One VERY good smith i know uses this type of eye on all his hammers,a couple of different sizes cover all his striking tools.It makes all his handles interchangable,easier'n ... to replace,and very conveniently removable for dressing faces/edges/et c.And all it takes is one set of slitter/drift for each size,and you're in business.WELL worth the R&D,so don't be discouraged ).

That IS a great dimentional change,Sam,right on!(Though i must admit to never being a fan of all-metal hatchets,and anything designated "tactical" immediately brings to mind the commerce stringing along the ignorant and the gullible,the reality-deprived masses desperate for any meaning...). I'm afraid that i can't quite wrap my pea-brain around where all the wondrous mass came from!Was the spike split off the handle,or was the upset so obscenely huge as to birth forth the T-shape of the blade and the spike?!:)

And here's the kind of forging that I do lately.The front of this device,with it's forks,is like a cold chisel,while the back of the machine,where the counterweight is, works like a rounding hammer. I forge anything and everything that gets in our way,the tractor's and mine! All the years of accumulated, frustrated mule-envy are driving me forth!I need to think of some heroic feat to perform,so that after i die the city of Galena will justify erecting a larger-then-lifesize mounted bronze,of it's village idiot astride his tractor!I'll put it in my will that it'll have to be designed and cast by Beth.

Ah,yes,that's my life's mission-Provocation!!!I feel like we,the humanity,have grown far too complacent,it's time to shake things up a bit! But,any amount of provocation would not be much without perseverance in Action,that has fallen to you,Jeremy,and you've carried it off with honor.Great job,man,very clean,competent,CONFIDENT-looking(all doubts and trepidation during the process,so common to all of us here,don't show in the victorious end,glory be!). ONE of the very important things about this element is that it's a way to spread the metal over the large surface. I'd bet that it's use in roasting utensils(as a heat-dissipator),is almost coincidental. The main point in the developing of this neat way of spreading the material in plane was security grillwork,i'd venture to guess. Now,in our day/scale/application,i can imagine it making a really nice looking trivet,or any other device,where the area coverage is useful. Anyway,thanks again,Jeremy,you've given all of us a leg up on this interesting style!

Man!That completed element looks so SEXY!!!Good on you,Jeremy,you've dug up the info,and now giving it one hell of a tryout! I REALLY like the result,especially that central weld-it came out just sweet as can be. Two things jump out immediately about the design:1.That's one design where there's no need to be "knocking the factory look off"-in the process it all gets forged,if not welded. And,2,is that it's also the kind of design that one can balance intuitively,the exact congruety of parts is not a must,(though it IS a good practice in mensuration,and a matter of competence and personal pride,as well). What was your starting stock for the parts comprising the element?(Neat texture too,by the way,working with coal,are you?) Fantastic job,man,and the first run,too,congratulations!Must feel like a million bucks! Thanks again,Jeremy,for leading this research into such a cool design element,and the possibilities of it's use in endless variations! Colleen,welcome to this asylym for misfits!There's a lot of BS happening here,(bs,afterall,is the spice of life!),but it's not ALL that we do here! :P

Far out,Owen,most sincere congratulations on having built something that is,i'd imagine,one of the most challenging things to get right!!! In my opinion,anyone who builds an axe with grindmarks on it's edge only,deserves a medal for sheer CLASS.Not even mentioning an axe with about an acre of surface on each side! Frankly,these "danish" style axes are not quite my thang,but,seeing one,is very interesting,and impressive.The top view of this axe must be really elegant,that slender profile on a blade THAT wide... Great looking axe,thanks showing it,and good forging to ya!

Vladimir Aleksandrovich,den' dobryi! Great looking patterns,masterly done(as usual )!

Some stuff coming out of the shrubbery: Now,my junk pile may not be either as artistic,or as antiquated as John's,but,this country's newer!And,i DO try my best :)

This discussion of a small welded element of Jura's is excellent,i'll say it yet again,and again,we're so lucky to have John aboard with us on that! It reminded me of the best book on forging that i've ever seen(not that i've encountered many).It was an early 1900's textbook for British tradeschools. It had VERY much of the text illustrated with great photographs,almost as if they were using the print the way that we use the internet now. There was this chapter on forging a quetrefoil that was a revelation to me-a simple soapstone drawing on steel plate,everything offered up to it during the process,the allowences calculated from and according to it...So simple,and systematic.The way John is describing things reminded me of it.(And makes me remember the rows of forges in those photos,and the robed 8-9 year-olds with crew-cuts and their too-big for them looking ball-peens!How i wished to be one of them!(And ALMOST am,now,thanks to John:))) Beth,when some inferior tool starts deforming in use i reforge it cold,between the heats of working.I'm in the habit of using a water can to cool the struck tools during use,and sometimes keep that moderate heat in the end of the tool instead,for warm-forging it,if you will. Once it gets past that point,i grind it. So,again,it IS a nuissance and a hassle,this,having the HEAT be your main differential between the work and the tool,but it is VERY educational. Another alternative is using the parts of old machinery,that,of course,utilised much med.carbon steel in it's construction.Eyeball the parts with a view to their past,intended job,what forces were they built to oppose?There's much variations of hardness and toughness,also the many potentially useful shapes. Between the fishing and having a tractor on the place i've barely had the time to read the forum,must utilise the opportunity to move the heavy stuff around here. But,with machinery's help especially,i'll be back in the shop in no time now!

Something that that jumps out at me is the obvious lack of overt fabrication-seems like all these different smiths went out of their way to insure that only the real,forged joinery is apparent to the viewer.So glad to see that,makes me feel a little less crazy for insisting that to be one of the base-lines of work leaving one's shop. Ditto with the dimentions of stock employed in the pieces-even if paralleled-sided,rolled stock,was used,the smith made sure that the design created the impression that everything is tapering,that all surfaces were lovingly forged. The overall neatness/symmetry,great regularity of joinery and parts also seem to be the trademark,the shared ethic/technique of the participating smiths. Many very well executed classic smithing moves were used very freely and casually,sq.corners and welds in scrolls,pass-throughs forged even after punching,and others.All that is combined with interesting,innovative useof these old,classy elements. In short,everythng that i feel is the must for quality forged work was practiced here,making it a joy to behold. Lovely work,John,thank you so much for these photos!.

Beth,i've a confession to make-i also struggle mightily with assorted too-soft punches and other struck tools. Usually use spring steel of some sort,a snowmachine suspension,or a garage door spring,and it's all still too soft,and deforms easily. The only way i know of seriously altering that would be to buy a quantity of super-alloys,H13,S7,D2,et c.Those work corker,last forever,so much so that it's almost cheating! Meanwhile,you can look at this as twice the exercise-handling the plastic deformation of the tool as well as of the work!Kinda like those 3-D chess sets...(But i agree with John,we get no medals for masochism...(there IS a pleasant twinge of bratty sort of satisfaction in doing something the hard way )

P.S.And i'm SO happy that the forgewelding comes up so often here-it's an excellent thing,that.Firewelding is that elephant in the room,it scares and worries all of us,but we all know that it's indispensible if one was to be truly free to forge whatever one wanted. So it's a great demystifying,liberating exorcism!

I'm incredibly grateful to everyone here,for asking these questions,for answering these same questions,for all your help in keeping all of our minds on the forging,even during those times that we're forced to be away from it. THANKS! Minotaur,Jura(Y-?),from the professional,technical perspective we all have a LOT to learn!Along with you,and everyone here,i'm sure,i've read John's analysis with great attention,it is of indescribable importance and value to all of us here(John,it's a real priviledge to have you comment so consise and in sush an expanded format,in the same time,thank you so much!). But like i said,that's all technical stuff,and technically,we'll all of us,always,find ourselves lacking,it's a part of craftsmanship,i believe. However,artistically,from the stand-point of the client,i think that your work is fantastic. Simply because you've the TASTE to pick on these classy designs.And that's crucial for a good smith,friends,to have that taste,to choose where to go next,in which direction to pursue the skill,what technical methods to attempt and to practice. THAT is our job,to choose the classiest work for the client,and it's vastly important. Yes,of course,so is the execution of the work,and we all do work dilligently towards that.But the choice of what to learn is also very vital.And many are at a loss of where to take their forging,and such knowlegeble people as John are so few and far between... Much time and energy is lost in vain. So thanks again,everyone,for struggling to do what's right!

Excellent and rare info and photos,thank you,John,this is an absolute priviledge to be able to ask you these specific questions(or eavesdrop on someone else doing it,thank you,Minotaur,and Beth,for asking this:)).

Trailer ball sounds great,man.Another good initial stock is a brocken-off stub axle(anything to avoid forging in that shoulder to sit in the hardy hole properly . But actually mild is just fine,just may need dressing/correction in the process. "Inventing" forging tools is similar to inventing one's genetic code(true,in some remote philosophical sense )

Ha!The photo of my new love has finally loaded! Beth,you just have the coolest toys,and now it turns out you've even a fordson!Wish i knew more about tractors,can only think of 8 or 9N,or the like,is yours similar?You lucky people,anyway!How many hp is it? Anyway,i,too,am king,if only for a day! (Now if i could only get it started this morning,my joy would know no bounds...But even just sitting there it's LOVELY!).

NOW you're thinking,Beth!We'll write the book together,and if someone has a problem with it,i'd just tell them-Hey,don't look at me,it's that crazy blacksmith chick over in England!And you can do the same thing,and tell them to go complain to the ravens,or State Troopers,or whatever,over in Alaska somewheres... Let's write it from the perspective of this mythical character,along the lines of Good Soldier Schweik-annoy the ...out of everyone!!!

Can't believe how many mistakes i've made writing one short message,even your name,Beth,sorry 'bout that Yep,can't be simpler,and the swage itself is so easy to make that it would be a sin not to make a slightly different one for each project! It'll make the stuff so much more Bespoke ,and,one can easily stumble upon the unexpeced coolness in the process of exploring and experimenting! (I just love the poetry in your English,Beth,and what's a blacksmithing without poetry?(or anything else ). All in all,it's a way to swage-forge,vs swage-stamp,which i see as important.The human touch in work. And,(getting back to the very beginning of this whole crazy thread),a stick on the wheel of the gross mass-producers.We won't give up the fight that easily.I love to try thinking of ways to come up with a decent-looking forged elements that'd be a nightmare to mass-produce Actually,those guys may be quite vulnerable.As cheap as they sell their crap,they probably can't afford to get too elaborate with tooling or engineering Let's get'em!

BP0921 Ok,i managed to get one photo in,cool! Now,Beth, this is hardly an exemple of anything worthwhile,but just makes it easier to discuss the principle. The more convex the "buttocks" are,te more aggressively you can deform the parts of the leaf that lay on them. And,if your blank is slightly larger,and you don't hit the very perimeter,the edges,then the original thickness will remain there.Allowing,i think,for all kinds of cool possibilities! click here

Wow,Bryan,that's looking good!So,you're into the hand-sanding mode now,that's a nice break from the rough,smoky,hot-work,or the noisy and tense motorised grinding.How high will you take it before HT? Did you say that you guys get together at Marks periodically?It sounds like a tremendous resource,to be able to pick his brain about these specific ,current problems,while working on a given project. Bryan,i'm sorry,as usual i've my own take on stuff,and am rather attached to it.If you don't mind,i'd like to spout a bit on the subject(i hope that you'd not ever think me patronising,i really have a very poor idea of what impression people may get from this overly categorical views that i hold...). I'd not,under any circumstances,make a stamp-like plate for leaf-work.Even strictly mechanically a swage of this type would require force WELL above any han-hammering,and the danger of all the ills that creep in with mechanisation are very real there. Also,it's extremely difficult to index the work to the plate-type swage. Here's something that i've played with a few times,with fair results:You make a hardy tool that is post-like,rounded spherically on the top,with a groove across it.You can forge the groove in,and file it to shape/refine it some more.The result is this miniature set of buttocks,if you will. When used,you point the future leaf,and fuller it off,and then,while it's still round stock or whatever,you align it's long axis along the crack between the buttocks,and give it a VERY authoritative whack. Now,you have that vein that you can,by feel,insert into the groove again and again,without smudging it.It'll reach the bottom of the groove eventually,provide good resistance for forging,and still remain un-distorted. Now,with your vein indexed in that groove,you've a pair of fullers,that even using the flat of your hammer,you can make the sides of the leaf, on both sides of vein,very shapely,any way that appeals to you.These fullers are unbelievably effective in spreading material,and also in making and keeping the sides of your leaf hemispherical,giving it life,and volume(nice FAT edges on the leaf look great on this,also promoting the globulosity,the succulency(if you'll allow such term),by contrasting with the deep indents. One of the main advantages of this process is the ability to use the same swage to make completely uniquely different shapes,versus the stamping process that quickly becomes deadening... Or such is my ignorant,intolerant,rotten opinion I'll try to look for some photos,though they'll(of course!)not be anywhere near as sexy as this description...(If i could only forge HALF as well as i can spout!!!) Ok,since i'm cut off from forging,i'll make a brief report on progress on other fronts: Drying eating fish is going ok,this is the end of two weeks fishing now... Well,some other time,the pictures don't work today. But-folks,i'm the happiest man alive!I've managed to scam the use of a most glorious John Deere 480!!! Haven't gotten out of it's saddle till it got too dark to see!Lord,how i love tractors! Gotten all sorts of wood up the bank,and generally tearing this place up!It's REALLy close to forging in pure joy,both the proces and the result!!!

Hey!You guys all seem to be doing swell,making neat stuff!And discussing some very interesting things,too.Thanks,John,all that info about the pure iron is very interesting! Beth,fantasticly beautiful shire photos,dogs,kids,playing on the commons...Such a neat place!!! I like your structures,the mud looks good,proper,too,but just good.Man,i'd love to see MORE iron imbedded there,LOTS,obscene quantities of iron,being pulled into the mud by the unseen forces! Brian,great stuff,man,please keep us posted as the knife-work advances.You're doing great on leafage,too.I wanted to bring up some dead-simple swages for a raised vein here,with you guys,but am having difficulty finding time,AND accessing the site(it's working great now,but usually has a tendency to freeze and even shut down my computer altogether...). I've squeeled "uncle",i'm so screwed here on my chores,and a friend is supposed to bring out the cavalry,a forklift that i can use for some days(Fine homesteading tool,that!).I'll attack the woodpile with it,and,if successful,may end up ahead enough to at least write.Maybe even sneak into the forge...

Wow, Danger,that is impressive cool.The head just takes the forging cake,boss.All the joints are fantastic,especially those orbital nests that they sit in. The forging marks everywhere are xxxxxxxx great, for some reason i have not realized before just how FORGED the whole deal is. But that head,man... I can easily believe that you're on to something,that you can take this stuff really far. It's a real pleasure to see something like this!