jake pogrebinsky

Thank you,Clay,(you insist on treating me as a normal human being,and i'm grateful for that). I do hear tell that it's very much as you've described,at the events of this sort. I'd like to say something disparaging about the better-heeled part of the Alaskan humanity,but i better not-the life likes to rub my nose in my messes of this sort,more so even as i get older,so i'd better leave it at that. Frankly,i don't do a face to face craftsman/client dance very well,the freakiness creeps out at some point,i'd have preferred to remain in the shadows. There's an old,stupid,piece of Alaskan humor:"Q:What do Alaskan men use for birth control?.....A:Their personalities". It's kinda what i do,in spades.But we'll see. I also have to behave because i've so many friends in all kinds of responsible positions at the university,and in general,Alaska is tiny,socially,and when/if i hurt someone's feelings wether in fun,or defending my odd convictions,or just out of carelessness,the repercussions reverberate for years,i'd be best to be absolutely discreet at a gathering like this. I'll also be there selling nothing at all,exept the IDEA of hiring me or someone else,to make bespoke ironwork for their home. I should make one of them spike-hooks,and if someone wants any of those recommend Jeremy.Stuff like that,i'll just be a missionary. By the way,Clay,may i please ask what the % of C you have in your scythe?Even approx.,are they about medium C alloy,or on the higher end?

Ok,Beth,we'll let that tiger-molesting issue rest...(what about bears?) I remembered the motto of Evergreen State college in Olympia,Washington,today(great school,Matt Gruening graduated from there,among many other oddballs):Omni Extrarres,Let it All Hang Out. It woulda made a good name for this thread I'm sorry,i think that you're right in that when the physiology suffers so does the quality of work.One eventually ends up spending all the time chasing one's own tail... Jawno,welcome to the monkeyhouse...

Giles,i'dlike to pipe up here briefly,sorry beforehand if any/all of what i'll say may be irrelevant. I've gone to visit a small foundry a few years back,and the owner complained bitterly about the difficulty in finding the pattern-maker,and the expense.Our conversation revolved mostly around patterns,as a matter of fact,and i got to handle and examine a few,some that he made,and some that came out of a legit patternmaking shop. Now,the Pattern-maker's trade is an old and honored one,let not anything that i may say be interpreted as a slight to it in ANY way,it's an Extremely qualified process.But,for what you need(with certain adaptations,maybe),to make a pattern would not be rocket science!Just indulge me by hearing these(harebrained) thoughts: Look at some regular,old blocks.They are Quadrangular,normally have those spoon-type depressions in the Faces,while the Edges are used for swages of assorted shapes.Their symmetry axis is in plane with their Faces,it transects those edges in the middle.Imagine this flattened quadrangle getting buried in the cope up to it's midline,as it lays flat,getting covered by a drag.Can you picture that,a flat square shape buried in sand to the middle of it's thickness? That midline,running the circumference of that block,(transecting those crenellations of swages),is the Largest set of points in the whole shape,imagine it bulging out pillow-like.THAT is the crucial quality of any pattern,it's called Draft.Because it'll allow you to With-Draw the pattern from the sand,without ruining the impressions in it. After casting,those swages will of course be humped in the middle,because the draft-line runs through them.But,it'd be easy to dress out,also,that may not be a bad thing anyway,allowing you the beginning of the relief that every swage has anyway. But,back to the pattern.The foundry can tell you what slope,the degree,of Draft they like.From this it's simple,as you can even exceed that slope,to be safe. You obtain a block of wood of necessary dimentions,and carefully strike a line that'll become your midline.Trace it in marker,eventually,as it'll be a part of the tool that you're building.(The patterns are made very smooth,and are coated with a few coats of varnish.Under that clear coating your lines,and inscriptions in different color markers look neat,you'll like it!). From that line you simply reduce the block into a trapezoid on each face,reducing each face's area. It'd be a simple job,allowing you to lay everything out precisely with a square.Once you have these lines,you carefully cut to them,using some depth-gauge cuts,and plane the resulting planes. Actually,that Draft,and the Midline are the only critical parts,all else can be as wild and curvacious as you like,provided that nowhere is there an hourglass shape,ruining the draft. All in all,it'd be a simple cabinetmaking process,plus,you'll need some gauges to carve your spoon-shapes. Possibly,if you've a cabinetmaker nearby,you may inquire how much a block sloped to the necessary draft would cost? For finishing,something like 220 to 400 grit paper,and some spray clear varnish,and it's done. The foundry SHOULD appreciate that effort very much,including the financial part of the deal. But again,i may be way off,and you had never wanted to be a Pattern-maker when you grow up! Warmest regards,and all the best however it works out! :ph34r:

Wow,Randy,those Zodiac symbols All look forged!What a great bunch of shapes+ideas that one could develop from that!

Ouch.Clay,i hang my head in shame...I always prided meself on learning all that i could of American history,and here i didn't have ANY idea of the Duel on the Sandbar! Thanks a lot,and for the rest of info on the Bowie knives too,had no idea why was it that so many were imported.This is great,and ridiculous in the same time,i mean-how much does a stupid blacksmith,busy at the forge all the time,must learn?!EVERYTHING,is the correct answer! This truly is great! Randy,i'm having a tough time with that file,but i'll try again. I've mentioned my ignorance,stylistically,several times,and i mean it,my head is full of undifferentiated imagery,working it's way out occasionally like the porcupine quills out of a dog. It's rare that i'll attempt a definite style,because of my debility,mainly.Won't be able to pull it off. But in that doorhandle,kinda,VERY vaguely,i was trying to explore some of the Celto/Norse design elements(as processed through my bad brain). What it amounts to,as usual,is stealing an element,and not being able to consistently stay with a given style,plugging it into a lattice of Arts&Crafts/Art-deco sort of hodge-podge.Like using the words from an unfamiliar language in a stream of another,or pretending to speak one that you only know a few words of! The trouble is that many design features that i covet come not from iron,but from wood,stone,non-ferrous work,and all else.It translation,they loose their character,leaving me with a bunch more experience,but not much knowledge.I'm sort of a loose cannon in the design dept. Clay compares this to a duel,but my deal with the iron is probably more like sex.Sex among the animals that find it painful and uncomfortable,like the tigers,say.In the end we both end up scratched and bitten and exhausted,but,possibly,fertilised Beth,you're a very kind,but also a very knowledgable and astute critic,i'd not be offended by anything that you may say,at all!But the allusion the the Russian Fairy Tale stylistic i find most flattering!There's lots there that is really appealing,much N.European stuff in general(like those Norwegian doors that we've been gawking at all that time ago),but also much of it's own,unique coolness! Forging in any Fairy Tale sort of style is very appealing,and forgiving of fudge,as i imagine it,i should try to do more in that way! I'm over-extended,there's simply not enough of me.It's a bad habit,but whenever i work i'm designing,i never have a complete plan.So,anytime that i try to cram,it ends up looking lousy,i can only produce decent work if i'm not exhausted.I'll just have to admit defeat,finish what i've started,and call it good.I'm about screwed for producing more work as it'd just take away from the whole.Only a week left till i'm in town,and the Missionary trip begins. Not much progress on the handle for all the above reasons,and i'm not even doing justice to that beautiful chunk of hickory.The design was simple,but i didn't manage to pull it offgracefully,not this time.We'll just have to live to ...(duel )another day!

Aw,you guys,nobody believes me when i say that it's not me,it's only the material that looks so cool! It's wonderful,though,to be in the company of friends and peers,it makes a huge difference to the work day at anything creative... This is but a quick note,grub-up,and changing phases from iron to woodshop.Wish that i could respond in detail. Randy,great shot!Any more,of detail or the thing complete?And,of course,Ah can see Russia raht from mah front door!(Or the back one,whatever,you're just trying to discredit me with them trick questions!). Clay,is there a significance to the Duel on the Sandbar?I'm sorry,i'm just a hick,not familiar with the allusion.If you mean purely geologically,it's a tough call:This(the North)bank of the Yukon is the lip,the very brim,of the Kaltag fault(the largest in N.America).It's where the two different tectonic plates meet,the South one diving under the North,pushing up a range of hills in the process. Technically,there's very little sand here,it's all glacial silt(although the Yukon valley itself,almost a quarter of a mil.sq.miles,has never been glaciated.It's deposited here by the Yukon from the tributaries further up). Very quick view of forging today-one,ONE(!),piddly escutcheon...For a handle from the previously aborted project...That's Somehow shall be made to rotate upon the door,too tired to think through that,now(but never too tired to do 8 times more forging because of the lack of planning...A mystery!). That was one GNARLY-unrefined WI,welding heat-every heat,i need to be whipped for this foolishness,it crosses all bounds(wasted time-wise especially).

Francis,yes,WI has higher anti-corrosivity qualities than alloys that differ from it.It's a fact. Galvanics,and any undesirable reaction between the two are NOT a fact,and the strange and partial way in which you're trying to bring a factual basis under it is odd,i'm sorry. I've once found a double-bit axe head in the river silt,it was probably deposited somewhere maybe 70 to a 100 years before. The corrosion on both the steeled edges was very different from the body of the axe.The steel corroded deeper,the places under the flakes of loose rust were dark,almost black.The two metals very obviously were oxidising at a diff.rate,and in a diff.way. But not the juncture of the two.The welds were very solid,and consistent,the two metals were coexisting beautifully.

Very cool,Monty,i really like all those.Especially together,they really give an indication of your correct,comfortable vision of the plasticity of iron(i don't know much about the technical ins and outs of arrowheads specifically,but am in a habit of perusing archeological information/examples,just to see the old ironwork.Yours create an identical impression of someone competently and plastically achieving the given goal in iron/steel). Very pleasing to see something like that,good for you,and thanks for this photo.

Thanks,Beth,it's sweet of you to say all these nice things,and to justify my erratic crazyness! Ok,i'll make you a deal:If i make something that i actually like,then i'll admit to designership! If it's too weird,and makes people wonder and think: "What in the..blazes kinda THING's that?",well,then it's from God!(Or them evil molecules,or any number of forces,i'll think of something). Mysterious ways and all that,you know... I'm trying to work both fronts,the forging,and the finish-work in my house where it's warm.Not very successfully,as the visitors then are too comfortable,and stay even longer...(It's ungracious of me to bitch about my friends visiting,i love them,and don't Really grudge the CONSTANT distraction.It's really a great and rare priviledge to work in this,the real village setting). But again,the progress is very slow,only just beginning to fit the front copper bolster,and the carving of the wood is far from done... Once again,John,(of course),was very correct about it not being proper to forge-in a mortice like that. The gauge difference from hot-slitting is Impossible to flatten out.(The Vibrations:You cannot level a high spot by hammering next to a low one-the low will keep bouncing down as well,at least for a while). There's a slight gauge inconsistence that my design accomodates,in this case,but... And,just for the heck of it,some shots of winter wonderland!(In passing,i kinda notice what's up with the River,as i scurry about on my abstract way). Beth,tell the chilluns that if they don't behave,they'll grow up to be Remittance Men,in some forbidding environs such as these,and Then they'll be sorry!

Thanks all you guys for this input,often,it's what i mull over many times and hours,in the day. I also try to post,or answer to the posts,thoughtfully,and so think about that,too. Unfortunately,by the end of the day my mind's too tired,that,and company.I'm a village dweller,and the traffic through my place is incessant.(I Try not to resent it,but it's tough,sometimes,especially when things are pressing). John,thank you,you're,of course,very right.Especially on an outdoor object,the wood will be unhappy in direct contact with steel,in compression,as well. The plan is to make bolsters/washers out of that thick-ish(1/8")copper that i have.They'll get tacked on by some brass brazing rod pins that i'll make,and/or be bedded in some goop.I'll leave extra movement in a key-way for the seasonal shrinkage,the key's pointing down and so may even self-adjust(it would if i cleaned the mortice smooth and neat inside). Sorry about the obscurity of my photos,this project is especially tough to make head or tails of.this is one photo that i forgot to post.It's the bottom bracket that'll catch the bottom end of handle,which is just a vert.stick of hickory.(and it's basically all that i've accomplished yesterday,it's scary how slowly i work...): Randy,thanks,an emphatic yes to all of the above! And yes,you're correct in that much of this WI is rather well refined,these sudden failures nonwithstanding(It's almost a shame to be burning it up in ornamental work,should save it for tool bodies...).Often it surprises me with what it lets me get away with. I have tried punching holes at terminus of split before,it was weird...The Vibration/Harmonics(here they are again)do some strange stuff with the traces of holes later,as i do the slit and work it.That great compression that the punch applies sideways,where there's less stock,really distorts the piece... Naturally,isolated as i am,my findings/conclusions are often ...Odd,shall we say?May have to look into this again. Beth,dearest,i'm sorry,i'm just being contrary,and Devil's advocate-ing,just out of some stubborness(Plus,people walk in in the middle of my writing the philosophical treatise,and i loose my train of thought). Of course i am the Designer here,and do design things to look the certain way. In a way,that is bad,and i actually have to fight my own bad taste;for remember,i've no education in design,nor much systematised knowledge,nor,yet,am i working in any stable tradition that'd allow me to rely on a set of rules already established. One HAS to watch one'e own potentially bad,kitschy,taste.My friends in Russia make fun of me for(subconciencely(sp?))copying the style that was so prevalent in the old parts of Moscow,where i grew up.It was some sort of 19-teens/twenties Moderne ,lots of organic-appearing abstract shapes,gracefully and mindlessly weaving about. Often,i peruse this russian site very much like this one here,extremely similar in fact,a general blacksmithing resourse. It's FULL of bad Moderne,as most folks on it are actual working smiths,and their work reflects the expectations of the consumer there.It's quite vapid,much of it,anyway,and repetative,and not very "alive"...It's an artificial style that was engendered,in part,by the advent of Arc welders.All of a sudden the smith could tack anything on in ANY way!The ironworkers went nuts! That,and the attempts to copy the cast work,which Stemmed from forgings originally,but in the 1800's became much more flowery and curvacious. So,all that bad heredity to overcome,takes energy! (Interestingly,Russia was "always" a producer of quality iron,and famous for their smiths.But much urban work was mindless regurgitation of poorly understood European styles,done for the gentry who lacked taste or sense.There're some wonderful native ironwork designs there,based on extreme skill of those smiths,but it was too classy to be very common,and remained obscure...).

I'm sorry to unsettle you,Sister Beth,but here we have it.I'm much unsettled meself... I see myself as a Keeper,a Warden,it's my job to make sure that Fe is treated as is it's due. It's a relatively simple job inasmuch of my participation in it is very limited. Mostly,like a little microprocessor ,i just make a yes or no decisions,open or close the switch. Can i create new forms in iron?IF that was my desire,AND my talent was on the par wirh Christopher Ray,maybe,kinda,sorta. But my path seems to be the older joinery,and the aesthetics stemming from it.IT,the joinery,has to do with engineering,the mechanical properties of steel.That has EVERYTHING to do with the steel's microstructure. I do believe that all i need to do is to respect the structure,pay attention to it,be sensitive to where it's at. The rest comes from the expected function of the object.It influences things,of course. So i just administer these factors,allowing the creation to take it's course,myself guided by other facets of creation.I watch to see how the grain of wood acts when i split it,(something that i do every day).I observe how the muscles were attached to the skulls around the place,how the ice-chunks rotate and bump in the river now...All that gives me the sense of physics,very familiar,in part innate,(and now that i'm kicking 50 in the a...,lots of it!). This project here,a door-handle.It's a front-door handle,and this alone instantly creates limiting,or guiding,parameters It's solid,it represents the front,the face of your house,it's one of the first things one sees,and the first that one touches! It's to be made out of iron,(WI,no less)and Look it,And,be made Well.. Then,it has a wooden insert. Last,but not least,one must put a little bit of effort to try to stick it to the Walmart boys-make it as difficult to automatically reproduce as you can,just a a good luck gesture. That's a bunch of info to go on,i only have to sort it all out. This is where i quit last night, And after most painful decisionmaking,ifinally turned it into this: Then this pretzel: And that corresponding part punched,

I'm sorry to unsettle you,Sister Beth,but here we have it.I'm much unsettled meself... I see myself as a Keeper,a Warden,it's my job to make sure that Fe is treated as is it's due. It's a relatively simple job inasmuch of my participation in it is very limited. Mostly,like a little microprocessor ,i just make a yes or no decisions,open or close the switch. Can i create new forms in iron?IF that was my desire,AND my talent was on the par wirh Christopher Ray,maybe,kinda,sorta. But my path seems to be the older joinery,and the aesthetics stemming from it.IT,the joinery,has to do with engineering,the mechanical properties of steel.That has EVERYTHING to do with the steel's microstructure. I do believe that all i need to do is to respect the structure,pay attention to it,be sensitive to where it's at. The rest comes from the expected function of the object.It influences things,of course. So i just administer these factors,allowing the creation to take it's course,myself guided by other facets of creation.I watch to see how the grain of wood acts when i split it,(something that i do every day).I observe how the muscles were attached to the skulls around the place,how the ice-chunks rotate and bump in the river now...All that gives me the sense of physics,very familiar,in part innate,(and now that i'm kicking 50 in the a...,lots of it!). This project here,a door-handle.It's a front-door handle,and this alone instantly creates limiting,or guiding,parameters It's solid,it represents the front,the face of your house,it's one of the first things one sees,and the first that one touches! It's to be made out of iron,(WI,no less)and Look it,And,be made Well.. Then,it has a wooden insert. Last,but not least,one must put a little bit of effort to try to stick it to the Walmart boys-make it as difficult to automatically reproduce as you can,just a a good luck gesture. That's a bunch of info to go on,i only have to sort it all out. This is where i quit last night, And after most painful decisionmaking,ifinally turned it into this: Then this pretzel: And that corresponding part punched, Here it's,kinda,positioned where a piece of wood will transect it.I'm not sure if this bad picture would tell anyone what i'm trying to accomplish here:

Thanks,Beth!I know that you understand,and i envy you your mental acuity,to be able to think and to speak of it rationally. I swear that ALL's that i've ever wanted is to do Right by Fe.I'm not attached to any personal,artistic achievement. I do not "express" myself in forging,i just want to facilitate the Iron in becoming what it can be. It's all there,already encoded in the very molecules,the wonderful shapes that the iron takes.I just get in it's way,with my clumsy,fumbling,overthought meddling. Zero vanity here,just trying my best to represent the potential of ironwork,and falling so dreadfully short. But thanks,and i'd better get on it,for better or worse...(Can't force meself to get rolling this cold morn...)

Just a quick note to wish you well,Dave,and to thank you for your wonderfully disciplined,systematic approach,that allows many of us to also learn from this process. Both your progress,and the advice and suggestions by others are simply most valuable to the rest of us upon the Path. All the very best,you'll be forging circles around all of us soon!

It's working again,so the tale of woe and despair continues! Just to finish the thought,this is one of the effects that i've gotten out of torturing the split-off tine,that facet rib was all that all the work was for... And,in general,this is the current project: It's a door handle(well,it's supposed to be,and May,yet,become one).The idea was,as usual,to pile up as much iron in one place as i can find any excuse for...(Big enough pile of Anything ought to be worth Something!). The handle itself will be wood(we're in a cold climate,and grabbing super-cooled iron is unpleasant,plus,bad little boys and girls won't have it there to suggest to their younger siblings to lick,when it's -40 outside). The bottom end of a vertical handle will go into that square mortice that i've been torturing for the last 2 days(today will be the 4th day on that job). The top end of the wood will be skewered by the protruding post at the top part,and wedged there(just had to plagiarise Dave's design from the neighboring thread,exept that half the joint will be wood,so maybe he won't resent me too much). On the subject of wedged mortice:I've asked John,specifically,if it gets forged,normally,and if so,how. John replied that it does Not,but is drilled and filed,and done with,and works well. So,of course,i Had to forge it(John being too far to box my ears).And,what do you know?He was right!It would've been Vastly better drilled and filed! I'm a maniac,and just have to torture iron,wether it makes any sense or not. It Can be forged,that trapezoidal mortice(it actually needs not be parallel to the wedge,but sq.instead,the wedge angle may be enough),but it's a hassle,and in a strange,subtle way,too. The wedge itself is a chunk of a broken cheapo axe,(that my student and i used in a heat-treating exercise,the bigger part of which fragment went to blading one of the recent adzes,as usual,the funk-factor thrives).I forged it as a drift,and will re-make it,it looks crude and the steel texture very different from iron(the rest of it all is WI,naturally): The bottom of mortice,where i've gotten lazy,once began,to maintain the trapezoidal section,and as the slit matched the top in lengh it formed a fudgy pinch on the ends: Ok,what other poor decisions have i made,resulting in such rich experiences having to catch up to straighten things out afterwards?Their name is legion! Here's something that wasn't my fault,really.The stock has suddenly failed,straight across the grain,as WI would at times,and i had to make a corner-weld. A corner is a good weld(IF there is such a creature),it offers lots of control.It's useful,as that whole series of welds is,the T and it's ilk,the angle welds.They were very instrumental in much of hardware,with the stock making sudden direction changes as the grain orientation goes. It worked ok,the welding is not only useful,but quite satisfying,WHEN it WORKS.I'd still rather avoid it,and was actually hoping to do this project without welding.It's on the bottom,pretzel-shaped part. As an aside,but vaguely related to all of the above:My mind is permanently twisted by all the children's books that i've read to my daughter(over and over,as kids like it).There was one about this weird creature,an unidentifiable immature phase of something,that was looking for it's Mommy. It was approaching all these different animals,demanding to know if they were it's Mommy,all in vain,as they were invariably not,and were annoyed and dismayed by the whole pathetic deal. Even horrified! So do i wonder aimlessly,trying to find my Mommy. The epic event will consist of me finding this magic designer,who'd understand and love me,and design in such a way that i'd like to forge,and take that onerous burden off my shoulders. There's an important reason for that,it's that i'm just not good at it,my mind is all over the map of techniques,styles,historic periods,and whatnot.Entirely lacking any focus. And without that,some direction,i undertake too many different forging methods/styles,and as a result exist permanently in an immature stage,i don';t put in enough practice in any given technique that i try out. My dearest friend and mentor,Phil,has come up with a design for a woodworker's holdfast,that sells like hotcakes.Over the years he and i have banged out a huge quantity of these "same" tools,a couple hundred feet of stock a year's worth. Now that i'm busy with this project i've abandoned Phil with those orders,but here's the reason that i drag this in:We've had a number of conversations with Phil about how NOT boring the forging "routine" is.Even though those tools are simplistic in the extreme,still,EVERY time you learn something vital,and it's NEVER boring.Hard to envision,but true.Forging Anyting is interesting,and challenging,even if it's repetitious to the max. Another time i had a stair-rail commission that required 96 identical elements.I dreaded it till actually getting about forging it-i loved it,totally surprising meself! Not sure why i can't force myself to doing something similar,but i can't.The couple of times that i've come across some repeatable design that the customers also liked,i lost interest,and wieseled out of any quantity work. Something needs to be done about focusing,otherwise,an inevitably sub-par work keeps coming out from under my hammer,it's bad,and wrong... There're two distinct directions(at least):To do one-off "sculpture"-like stuff(for which i want my Mommy!!!).Another is sticking to a narrow range of work,and getting good at it.I'm not man enough to do both at once,and do it all on my own...

The fickle Photo Deity loves me today,so i've stuck a few in,to illustrate some stuff about the twist.Unfortunately,it happened so unexpected-like,that i've not processed yet those later shots that would clarify where i'm going with this.Also,while i was trying to do this,my reply to something very pertinent in Beth's last post has flown my pea-brain,so i'll try to make another post here forthwith(it's hell getting old). The original stock being split,1 3/8" x 3/4", After the split,if the tines are in any way close to a sq.section,one can forge them on the bias,or any way at all,completely changing their orientation.Here i'm forging one on the horn,which maintains it's already helical shape,and the sky's the limit as far as where one can take it. Always wanted to forge a Mobius strip,and i may yet,you wait! The next,not directly related action,is a slit in the very end of the same size stock,which is a weird thing to do,WI fibre being very linear,and prone to splitting.I pointed the stock beforehand,because later i'm hoping to drift it square,on a diamond to the stock. The slitter is to the left of the began slit,it's a pavement breaker bit that i originally forged into a slitter to slit 1"round mortices,years ago...: As luck would have it,the end of the stock is holding,but the side is blowing out-the seam between two layers has opened.I'll ignore it,there's nothing that i can do,welding it to just continue slitting would be inane,it's the slitter that stressed it to this point... But i finish the slit,and that delamination just hangs in there,which means that i can continue to ignore it...Look at the miserly amount of stuff that was removed in slitting!Somehow,a nice little solid plug seems somehow cleaner,but this sharp slitter saves so much energy... Drifted square,it looks cool,and is exactly what i wanted.That sq.mortice has so much metal in it that it can be worked over the edge on the anvil without the drift in place.It's very lucky,as i'm too lazy to actually forge a dedicated drift,and am using a piece of stock that is out of square.But that chunk is massive,like i said,and gives very good control over the outside of that mortice. At this point i fuller it very rudely,by using my PH to shove a 3/4" across that stock,to isolate the end.I watch that delamination throughout,it runs in a different plane from anything that i want to do,and we seem to peacefully coexist.I smash it right in with a fuller,it don't say nothing...Then i crudely reduce the stock some,now it's small enough in section to begin Writhing!That's exactly what i was hoping for,as i need further design ideas!

The photo upload is unwell today,or i'd show you a photo,Beth,of a catastrophic failure in WI.You're very right to compare it to wood,it's very fibrous. The fibres are lined with Si,(nominally,though the actual composition of slag is complex)so,if only because of that,you're limited with how any given piece can be used,like punching or slitting it in places. And the way it transfers vibration is also different,making it very easy to bounce off an element off an end of a stalk,like a leaf,say. And,since we don't know what may've happened to it in it's past,very unpredictable.Some previous forging action in it's original manufacture/use may've already taken it to the breaking point. It can be refined by faggoting,and was,in the past,the smiths buying whatever grade would suit the complexity of the job.One can certainly do it oneself,by folding and welding under the PH,but what a lot of work that would be! Fun work,to be sure,as the stuff is almost self-fluxing,with all the Si pouring out of it at each high heat. The way that i use the term "logarythmic" is simply to indicate the proportionate change,a constant rate of increase in a bend,say.Like a Nautilus shell,that twists with a steady increase of radius. So,hypothetically,a mathematically even taper,with a math.evenly distributed heating,with a math.constant direction/energy of force,would form a math.perfect logarythmic spiral. It actually works in reality.By forging a nice taper and heating it evenly,one can spiral it into a scroll that is extremely fair and pleasing to the eye,just by hitting it weith a hammer on a constant angle.When it comes to scrolling i've a hard time doing it any other way...It is the way that the steel tends to act,itself,and smithing we usually are wise to study it,and use it as much as possible,for any number of reasons. The way that the steel tends to behave itself is a necessary study for anyone attempting to design in iron.As some things the steel is almost wanting to do itself,other things are about impossible to coax it to do with Any force. After all these years,i still regularly draw/plan shapes that,once at the anvil,i realise that the material would Never comply with.It's a life-long process! :)

Randy,that's very true.But even if someone thinks otherwise,that's great!As long as they actually THINK. For a Thinking person in the craft(s) is so vastly important...It is really impossible to practice a craft and Not think.(Even if the craft has to teach you to think,it will,eventually). So,it's a great pleasure to make your aquaintance,as a fellow sentient craftsman I've spent this whole day thinking of a hot-split,forked,stock. (As i was hot-splitting a chunk of a 1" sq. of WI). The hot-cut,being a wedge,forges an Nth of mass at one side of split.Each of the tines comes out trapezoidal in section. Their Mass is equal,and they can be forged back into square.It's work(a four-letter W word),and it can be difficult at the crotch. Instead,they can be forged as a Trapezoid that they are. The way that the tines curl up as one is splitting stock is Magic.It reflects,i think,the force of blows elsewhere,it's a function of Harmonics.Given the even mass of tines,and even heat radiating from area being split,the helical curve that they take on can be very fair,very proportionate(it could be logarithmic,if the tines are already tapered ). That curl is handy not only just technically,as it keeps the split being heated just So,(and it keeps the max pressure/bearing on anvil face),but it's also visually very cool.I like it,and use it.Sometimes in it's raw form. Today i nedded a split that was bent at right angle,like a hook,so i let the tines curl upwards to about 90 deg.,and kept forging the resulting two mirror helical curves. It wasn't hard to keep track of,as the things were tending to that shape themselves. The horn,being a section of a cone,and making helical shape on things that you Don't want to twist,came in handy today,really good,and Interesting,control of the twisting tines,one from each side of horn. I've seen iron do some amazing things today!It was Glorious! :)

Freeman,first off,this is such a Worthwhile project in general that it (almost) don't even matter how "nice" it'll come out in the end. The reason i think that is that the tool use,the passing on of skill from one generation to the next,and even the very contact,communication,inter-generationally,are all so precarious nowadays,that the very Idea of what you're doing is wonderful,right ON!!! In practice,a drwaknife can simply be a strip,rectangular in section,with a cutting edge(and the modern ones are,for most part). The old ones,made by the mass-producing companies of 1800's(such as Miller Falls,say) are Nicer,(as you've noticed),and it has to do with a few things:They were then closer to the hand-made ones,by people that Really Knew.Also,they were selling them to many that still,then,Knew What Clay said about using one is Very valuable(and well put),i'm very glad that you heard him. I'd like to particularly commend your attempt to forge in a groove,good job,very good forging ethics to attempt something even if you can't get there yet.But that groove was there in part to reduce friction when using bevel-down(very common,just as Clay says). Well,i've not much of substance to add,it's all been discussed by now.Maybe that the finishing needs not be intimidating:File the back level,and sharpen,later,in re-dressing,the tool and the owner will find the equillibrium of necessary shape themselves,by means of the routine maintenance. Also,the leaf-spring can provide decent stock for one,and not be so limited in size. If you were to take this far enough,look up making and using a Sen,it'll really help in the levelling of sharpenable surfaces. Again,good on you,respect for your effort in this,and the best of luck.

I HAVE seen the book,very briefly(i lived close to a very wise fellow who had a rule that every time he sells a piece of his forgework,he buys a blacksmithing book!but i was a very brief period in my travels).Unfortunately,i don't remember any specifics,as i was trying to read as many books as i could while the opportunity existed. Having the good fortune to've "met" Randy on here,i can see how he could thoughtfully explore the heart-shape. I've also been always MOST impressed by it,these two connected S-curves,and how adjustable and versatile it is in working it on the anvil!NOTHING in it is anvil-shaped,yet,working it,it just WORKS with the anvil. Sometimes i thought that in part it may be the fuction of how steel "whips",does a re-curve,when working a section of it over the edge...In any case,it's one of the most natural shapes to make,somehow... Thanks,Beth,yet again,for so astutely connecting the (in retrospect)obvious points! :)

Wow,Randy,that IS some different material,very wild shape,as well. Yes,the oxidation colors of Ti alloys are marvelous,i've seen a machinist friend do some wild stuff with cut-offs... Thanks for all this neat stuff.I'm falling-down tired,and didn't figure out how to open that link above,will try again in the morning. Every time i get into tool-making i remember again just how ill equipped i am to deal with more complex metallurgy than simply mashing stuff around.The set-up has to be all aranged anew,as i only do this a few times each year...But i'm done with it now,strangely,no losses to the quench this time(only lost my quench bucket,and some time shovelling up 4-5 gallons of oil,melted a hole in a silly thing warming it up with a piece of scrap.But i ended up mixing forge ashes into the oil-soaked gravel,and made some cool patches in the forge floor,cinder,petro-bonded!I may have to do the whole floor,and impress magical spirals in it,too!). The steel oxidation colors are way cool,too.I like them SO much better than all the silly work that goes into finishing stuff... I had a wonderful friend whose father has always told him:"Son,never forget this:Work is neither good,nor necessary!!!".He was a truly wise old man,too bad he worked himself to death,long ago now,but at least he knew what's what!

Owen,Right On!Good for you for venturing forth like that! It's back to socket school for all of us,when the need for one arises.Simply,trying to be such generalists in metalwork predictably makes us Non-specialists at certain,less-common,moves. I'm on the sidelines on this,and should,probably,keep my mouth shut,but i'd say that what you're trying to do is odd:I.e.trying to have the blade and the socket share the original stock. I see (as i interpret the old ones)that the blade and the socket are distinct from each other.The back of the blade is what looks to provide the mass for the weld,either that,or(in some where you see the ears of the socket hugging the blade),the top of the socket opens,admitting the blade within,and is lap-welded on the sides of the blade. But again-great going!All the best to ya!

Beth,as usual,can bring this thread back into focus.Thanks,Beth!I second all that,instead of the spacey way that my own pea-brain clicks! :unsure:

All that came up in these last couple of posts just blows me away with it's validity.Makes me so proud to have anything at all to do with this ironworking culture of a past few decades,to've at least in some remote sense shared in thoughts involved in our relationship to this material.It is,once again,an absolute priviledge to be able to communicate in this manner,on THIS matters. Thank you... I think,Randy,that you're getting real close in your work to that mystical koan postulated by Yellin(forgive me for bringing this up yet again on here).About the "untangible Quality" in ironwork,something that is not connected to the complexity,or size,or the elaborateness,something that a good craftsman either imparts to the work,making it real,like the Boy in the Velveteen Rabbit,or not. And if so endowed,the work can be of any,even most insignificant size and complexity,it just has It,that intangible Quality,that gratifies the person who made it if not completely,then at least in part,by obviously reflecting It. As an undercurrent throughout this thread it has also been my contention that a layman,entirely uninformed in the fine particulars involved in judgement of "good" ironwork,that regular,unsophisticated person can also recognise that Quality. And THAT is what makes work appealing to the public.That genetic similarity,in a sense,among all humans. There's about endless number of radii that can be drawn from that one point,like the stuff that is sold in the box-stores being a facsimile,getting whatever appeal that it does have by plagiarising elements of the truly inspired work.The consumer,busy and preoccupied with Life,not being a blacksmith or an arts professional,simply not taking the time to process that innate reaction that i maintain they genetically posess. Also,the religious angle(though good God knows why i meddle in all that,it's so remote from my entire life),the craftsman,by insisting on seeking that Intangible Quality,simply means to give just dues to the Creator,something less is simply Disrespectful. And Disrespect,on the side of the Creator,is not observable in universe-if we look around us,simply everything is made with that very quality and attention,(probably why the creative person looks to nature so often,the Creation is a handy reminder of a standard of quality). But all these semantics are only to yet again underline the fact that one must strive in metalwork for a certain threshhold.Less does not serve.Life is,indeed,too short to drink cheap beer,as a silly old bumper-sticker common in Alaska used to say...

WOW,Randy,that is some really neat stuff!That last thing is incredible(and it looks like a serious,double-ram press behind it,40 t or better...).Jeremy was just remarking on importance of Deep,Defined,Deliberate impressing into steel! I respect that philosophy a lot,the Plasticity of the Crystalline or the Molecular substance of steel(always forget which is it in what phase)is,of course,the whole point in forging,10-4 on that. Whimsy,of course,is a Higher form of any craft(love it but have to bow to the humourlessness of my own ineptitude...All the incompetence takes itself (childishly) seriously,as a rule,and conversely,the competent feel free and unencumbered to frolic ). The imprinting reminded me this old,dated movie,that a couple of hippies put together in the '70-ies as a do-it-yourself tourist guide to the Indonesia/Java area.There they mention those local mystical and revered Empu,who are rumored to edge-quench a blade with their fingers!(The Very Hot ones-with their lips! ).As a proof,one can get a souvenir locally where the fingerprints(or the lip-prints,for a price!),on the edge of that Keris are clearly visible imprinted in steel. Which,in turn,reminds me of one friend of my father's,in the Old Country,who claimed inventorship of this curious silver-etching process,thereby he cast a signet ring with an exact impression of the owner's fingerprint(but there was no magic there,just some way of accurate tranfer of masking).Convenient product,though,for those that still use a signet and seal. All in all,this is a Wonderful discussion,it's about all that's most important,and valuable,and magic in metalwork.Thanks so much for joining us here,it's terribly important to think of all that!