R Funk

The wood forges I have seen all have 3" to 6" inches of insulating sand,dirt, and/or ash. I think you are a risk building a wood forge with less than that. By the way even some commercial, high volume blacksmith shops used wooden forges where bricks and iron were very expensive. The blacksmith shop at the "Amercian Eagle" mine at Victor Colorado has a wooden forge.

My blacksmith hand hammer is "hand drilling" hammer style hammer that I have modified into a cross pien hammer. What makes it unique is that it is an un-symmetric pien. That is the surface of the pien opposite of the handle is vertical like a french locksmith hammer. The pien face on the same side of the hammer as the handle is then approximately twice the angle of a standard cross pien. The straight face of the pien allows me to hammer and draw all the way to an adjacent vertical face on the forging, just like french locksmith hammer. It is about 2.5 #. However its major defect is a rounded (approximately octagon) face. I need to make a hammer with a full square face like a Hofi hammer with a similar pien. My other hand hammer I use alot is a modifed engineers hammer. (a double faced hammer of similar size to a blacksmith cross pien) I ground each face to a 5" cylindrical radius creating what is essentially a very very very dull pien. I used a 4.5" grinder to do the modifications. This radius, does not appear to be agressive, but makes a significant difference when drawing out a forging. This is used when you want a one directional drawing action, but a cross pein may more agressive than desired. I ground the radiuses at 90 deg to each other so I essentially have a cross pien and straight pien on the same hammer. By flipping the hammer over as I use it converts the "cross pein" side to "straight pein" side I can easily control which way the metal is moving, without having to reposition the work or myself as would be required if I were using a standard cross pein. Due to its shape I have used this hammer as a finishing hammer as well when a dead flat finish is not desired a hand forged look is desired. Again this was commercially made hammer with octagon faces. I need to make a square faced hammer like a Hofi hammer. However this is in the far future as my illness has kept me from doing any smithing work for over 8 months and it could be many more months before I can fire up my forge again.

I am not certain how you could hard face a cast iron anvil. If it were cast steel you could hard face it. If you start welding on cast iron you may crack the anvil. Just continue to use it. Be careful on the edges so you don't chip then. Have fun using it until you find something better.

Steve Sells, I don't understand the dynamics of quench baths as well as I would like to. I wonder if you could clarify what you mean by the following... "We warm the quench liquid because thermal transfer if better than room temp would be" I thought in water the important factors were the agitation and the temperature with the higher temperature difference creating the higher heat transfer. Also could you further explain what you mean by "a 2 stage temper"? GENERAL DISCUSSION Steve is exactly correct that if you temper in an oven you need to further temper the body and head of the chisel. The advantage with letting the colors run is that this leaves the body of the chisel and the strikening end in a softer condition than the cutting edge, which is desirable. The problem with letting the colors run is that it can occur very rapidly and the tempering temperature could be off by 25 or 50 deg F. I have missed the colors running and had to reharden and try again on more than one occasion. However this is a simple, almost one step hardening and tempering process and has been successfully used by blacksmiths for many years. But this brings up another problem. If we let the colors run and then quench, the steel is at the correct tempering temperature for just a few seconds. We blacksmiths behave as though the steel reponds instantly to temperature changes. In reality steel reacts rather slowly as the commercial heat treaters rule of thumb is 1 hr for every inch of thickness. Thus a chisel should be held at tempering temperature for approximately 1 hour to extract the optimal results from the heat treating processes. This will make certain steel will spend ample time at the accurate tempering temperature. Using an oven allows allows the cutting edge of the chisel at an optimal state But as Steve says an additional opertion softening the body and striking end of the chisel needs to be completed before the tool is used.

This is a question that that has several variables and can change the actual prcedures. 1)Measure the internal diameter (ID) of the bearing and outside diameter (OD) of the shaft. Subtracting the ID from the OD gives the press fit. Go to the bearing supplier's website and verify the press fit is within the limits the specified. If the press fit is too tight the bearing may split or may run to tight do to expansion of the inner race. If it is too loose it may run not stay in place on the shaft and may even "whallow" looser totally ruining the shaft. Some specifications may include a force in pounds required to push the bearing on the shaft. Loc-tite and its competitors have products that can secure the bearing to the shaft if it is not too loose If specifications can not be found for the specific bearing find one that is close to the same dimensions and use these specifications. 2)There are 3 ways to install a tight bearing 2.1) On small bearings a press can be used to force the bearing on. Use care and pushing the bearings. Some hydraulic presses have pressure gages that allow the force the the press is putting on the bearing can be directly read. Make certain the force of the press is resisted by the inner race of the bearing and the shaft. Make certain that there is no pressure on the outer race as this will damage the bearing, as this axial force can not be sustained by the bearing. The press can be used for larger bearings but when bearings get large 4"-6" ID or more, heating becomes more and more viable 2.2) On larger bearings they are often heated with electric bearing heaters or heated oil baths. We blacksmiths can use my favorite heat source, a toaster oven. Not only can we use it for heating our sandwich we can temper and heat bearings. Verify the maximun temperature for heating the bearing. Never heat above 275-300 deg F unless recommended by the bearing manufacturer. Do not heat bearings with plastic or rubber cages, shields or seals. 2.3) Cool shaft with dry ice. This is not commonly used, but is possible. Nevr use a steel hammer to drive a bearing on or off. If you must use a hammer to drive a bearing use a brass drift or punch to drive the bearing. Bearings are "glass hard" and may shatter if struck with a steel hammer. Once you get the feel for pressing on force fit bearings, some of these steps can be skipped based on experience. I am not suggesting that I always measure the shaft and the bearings. With a small press and small bearings you can just very carefully press the bearings on. If they push too hard stop and examine for possible problems. Use common sense and watch and think about what is happening. Make sure that no force is exerted on the outer race of the bearing, when the inner race is pressed on the shaft or that no force is applied to the inner race when the outer race is pressed into a housing.

IRNSRGN Can you (or maybe you already have) post pictures of your hammers. Helve hammers have always had a special interest to me. Phillip in China A lightly loaded motor is not always better. They produce a low power factor load which increaases the amp draw. That is a 2 hp motor developing .9 hp will draw more current than a 1 hp motor developing .9 hp. It probably doesn't matter that much with 1 or 2 motors but if you have a factory full of lightly loaded motors it will matter.

Boy I sure don't want to get into a big engineering discussion on various scrubber and cyclone related cleaning systems. I am an Liscensed Professional Engineer and have designed and installed numerous scrubber and air cleaning systems. I WILL NOT install one these systems in my shop. Nor even think of the engineering required to do so. If air pollution is a concern based on your neighborhood, burn coke, propane or natural gas. Oil would work to if you can carefully control the fire so it does not smoke. The EPA has this principal, if you install an air pollution control device you must report it to them, get a construction permit and then verify its proper operation even if it is not required. You do not want to go down this road! If you install a wet scrubber what do you do with the dirty water. It will take a permit to dispose of it legally. Again you do not want to go their. Hofi is correct. Make it and keep it simple! Simple is beautiful. Any Engineer can make it complex!

The pitch of a triangle is a function of the weight of the bar (the heavier the lower pitch) , the length of the bar The longer the bar the lower the pitch up to a point) and the stiffness of the bar (the stiffer the bar the higher the pitch). The stiffness for steel is constant reguardless carbon content. The weight of the bar is dependendent of diameter. And of course length of tha bar is dependent on the size of the triangle. Thus to make a higher pitch make the diameter smaller and /or the traingle smaller. To make the pitch lower make the diameter larger and/ or the triangle larger. It does seem to me, based on observation, that higher carbon, heat treated steel rings louder and clearer than low carbon annealed steel. But my observations may be wrong. I am not aware of any engineering explanation for this but I sure there is if my observations are correct.

There are several sites that list Little Giant Power Hammer Sizes and the recommended motor size. Google "Little Giant Specifications" and they should come up. These should provide guidance on what a mechanical hammer power requirements are for hammers opertaing at the same speed as a Little Giant. Trust this helps

RR spikes are a relatively low carbon steel. Do they need to be annealed? I never have done this Annealing is to make steel dead soft and reduce fracture potential early in the forging phase.

The reason you need a mutliple start screw is so that it will not stick on the bottom. If a single start screw is used the relatively low angle of the thread on the screw is such that it is self locking. That is increased force will not cause the nut to spin off. This is what is desired for most screws and nuts. However in flypress application this will require the fly wheel/ screw assembly needs to be manually backed off. This could require a fair amount of force and time, heating the tooling and cooling the work. However using a multiple start screw the angle of the screw is such that screw/nut assembly is not self locking and will back off automatically when the assembly hits the bottom of the stroke. By the way I have (4) 2.5" dia acme thread screws with nuts I bought to make one or more flypresses. I bought these before I recognized the issue with single start screws. I guess I can use them to make a 10" 250 lb leg vice with a 2.5" screw. Of course I would sell them to a believer who thinks they will work in a flypress.

Ice Czar, Thanks for bringing up the technology of Scrubbers and Cyclonic air cleaning systems! Please remember for these systems to work effectively, they must fairly highly engineered. The air flow veleocitys must be very high and pressures high. The air velocity and pressures are typically 10- 30 times higher than what is present in a home heating system. Power consumption will be high due to the high velocities and presssures of the systems. I would save these systems for applications where government and neighbor relations require such an application. Remember that if these are required by the goverment detailed designs and stack tests may be required at a great cost, more than cost of a fine German automobile.

Are you certain it is steel? Many lathe gears were cast iron in which case it must be brazed. TIG would just destroy the gear.

Remember the only important criteria for a quench are: 1) Safety: Flammability, toxicity etc 2) The speed of quench. Faster is harder unless it is too fast then it may break the steel 3) Uniformity of quench. If the steel is cooled non-uniformly it may fracture the part. Circulate the quench or move the steel around in the quench liquid to assist in uniformity of quench. Many factors determine these criteria. As an example a thick gear only will be a slower quench than ATF fluid. This is due to ATF being less viscous and will move around more readily in the quench process, exposing the steel to fresh unheated oil than if the quenchant were heavy gear oil. Remember: Brine is faster, water but more uniform. Items that fracture in a water quench may survive a brine quench.

I am not a professional smith and have purposely never sold an item as I do not want to deal with liability of a business. In one of my past lives I was involved in expert witness work for legal cases and I can tell some real horror stories of our riduculess court systems. And unfortunately my current employer has placed golden handcuffs on me and I can't really afford to blacksmith semi-professionally until I retire. I wish to share a little different perspective on pricing and costs based on my experience in the business world and regularly dealing with suppliers and interacting with customers. Instead of looking at pricing and costs from the standpoint of manufacturing cost perspective, look at them from the marketing perspective. Who is the customer? How much money do they have? How much do they want to spend? Do they appear to be "moneyed" or do they appear to middle class or "financially challenged?" Are they a business? If so your product may be worth 2 or more times than the cost. (maybe even 10 times) if it solves a critical problem for them. What is the competition or alternatives? I know of blacksmith who got an order of low volume specialized tools as the customer's current source of these specialized tools had gone out of business. He charged the customer about 60% of the price they were paying. He should have charged them at least 120% of the cost they formerly paid as he was essentially the only option they had. He still did very well on the project from a cost of materials and labor viewpoint, but walked a from a large pile of money that could have been his. Charge the market price if it is greater than your cost of production. If it is less than don't make it. Does a forged product offer unique advantages? Sometimes blacksmith or forged products offer unique advantages. With the price of nonferrous metals currently so high, could a forged part save a substantial amount of raw material that would normally be converted to chips? For example a part with a thin body and larger diameter end would normally with today's technology be machined from bar stock the size of the largest dimension. However this machining may convert well over half or even 3/4 of the barstock to scrap (chips). If the item can be made from small stock and the end upset, the material costs could be substantially reduced. When evaluating and bidding a job like this, look at the materials and machining costs of the machined option. Then compare those costs for the forged part. Bid the price of machined part not the price of the forged part if the machined part is substantially more. What are customers willing to pay? This is hard to determine but here are some thoughts. I liked the philosophy of one smith that flat out asks his clients, "What sort of money do you plan on spending?" This helps calibrate the customer and the smith to the realities of the market. Then the smith can conceptualize and sketch a $500 or a $5,000 rose trellis for the client as they request and not have a disappointed client when the project cost 2 or 3 times more than their expectation and a re-conceptualization of the project is required before forward progress can be made. Is it a business? Most large businesses have a labor cost (including benefits) of at least $40.00to $50.00 or more per hour (except retail and food). This includes the janitor sweeping the floors if they have not outsourced this task already. Look for opportunities to solve problems for a business. They will pay handsomely for this! I know of a situation where a small shop rebuilt fixtures for a larger company. They had a fairly uniform workload over the year. It may not be blackmithing work, but it leveled the work load and provided an almost steady income. And at $50 or $75 per hour we can be contaminated by this non-blacksmith work as it subsidizes our true love and could keep our kids fed if we run into a dry spot in smithing. Another situation I know of involves a very small fabrication shop. They have a contract with a local warehouse were they do the basic building maintenance and minor repairs to the building. I know its not generally fabrication work let alone blacksmithing but it is money. Work to sell art and not just practical or utilitarian objects Art often has more perceived value than practical items. If you can break into the world of art you can even sell clinkers as a unique artistic pieces (well may be not but you get my drift.) Never let a sketch or a set of plans leave your shop unless no other options exist. You have 2 primary assets as a blacksmith: 1) Your design or artistic ability 2) Your ability to produce product. Don't give either away. If you must let drawings or sketches leave, make sure that you are paid for the artistic elements of the design at shop rates and mark them as "confidential" and better yet include verbage that the "design and design elements contained on this drawing is property of XYZ Forge and must not be reproduced by any method". In most cases they will now think twice about "shopping the plans." If they reproduce the drawings or the piece they can be prosecuted in court and in most cases you can prevail. (but the lawyers will always win :mad:) I am sure that many of you can relate bad experiences where someone took your sketch or design concept and "shopped the plans" and someone else built it. They can always find someone who can do it for less if your work is priced appropriately. Bottom Line: I am not suggesting that we should take advantage and overcharge. What I am suggesting is that we understand the market and charge market price. If we can move to the upper end of the market and increase our pricing that is great. I have a story I like to tell of a friend of mine who had a business "detailing" used cars for dealers. He complained about being too busy and not making enough money. I told him "raise your prices" but he was scared to. Finally he listened to me and raised his prices. I asked him if he was still busy and how many customers he lost. He said lost a few and that he was still too busy, but making more money than previously. I said you did not raise your prices enough, you can't raise them again right away but next time you do remember, your experience and raise them until you have an appropriately decreased work load. Trust my ramblings have not been too long.... Thanks for Listening.

It is hard to detirmine what steels were used in applications unless you actually have the engineering specifications sheet for the part. It is likely that they maybe 5160 which is a chrome alloy steel and this was a common steel for this application. They could be 5160 or 1050 to 1080 or other alloys with similar properties. If you use "junkyard steel" it is a good policy to expirement with the heat treat. If you think it may be a alloy steel quench in oil first to see if hardens as required. If it does temper it to the required hardness. If not reheat and quench in water and check to see if hardens as required and temper. Even if the hardness does not need to be reduced, always temper at a low temperture 350-400 deg F. This will only reduce hardness slightly but increase toughness significantly. Remember use an kitchen or toaster oven for tempering. Set the oven for the tempering temperature you desire and leave the item in for at least 1 hour per inch of part thickness. This is much more accurate than a doing it with a forge or torch and has multiple advantages. It is probably best to do this when your wife is gone.... But evaluate the risk..... or buy your own oven for the shop.

If you are going to use it for mainly for repetive work, this cam design could work. However think through the length of stroke issue. You might want to consider having several interchangable cams allowing you to select the stroke length versus tonnage. The longer the stroke the less tonnage available. One more comment is make certain that the press can not stuck on bottom dead center. Shape the cam so that it can not get stuck, that is keep the cam active with no dwell at the bottom center. This will allow the wheel to kick back at the end of stroke as a traditional fly press does. Getting a press stuck on bottom center can be very difficult to clear. It is not unsual for stamping presses to have electric heaters in the frame to heat the frame, increasing the lenght of the frame and releasing the tension and allowing the press to be unstuck without dissassembly of the press.

One forge blower I have is a combustion air blower from a residential high efficiency gas furnace. I picked one up at a flea market for $0.50 at a flea market. It works fairly well if you are working on small work, less that is than 1" dia or so. Larger work requires more air. For larger work 2 would be required in parrallel. WW Grainger have several blowers that would work for less than $50.00. I don't know their website off hand but a quick search on Google will find them.

If it rings it can not be cast iron. Cast iron contains carbon particles that dampen the cast iron structure. This is one advantages of using cast iron for machine bases, gear boxes, and similar applications where noise and vibration could be an issue. It would generally be difficult to distingish cast iron from cast steel with only visual examination. I would want to do a physical inspection including, tapping with a hammer, spark testing etc to detrimine whether or not it is cast steel or iron. However, many of the cast iron anvil shaped objects can be visually identified as cast iron due to relatively thick heels required by the lower structural strength and impact resistance of cast iron.

My buddy found a overhead type door contractor who gave us free reign to dig thru his dumpster. I am certain a couple trips would have yielded a free spring. Trust somebody else can put this strategy to work.

I feel that the cam operated "fly press" holds some merit on from the standpoint of ease of construction. However the problem I see is the lack of adjustability. If the thickness of the work changes or for example if the work needs to be drawn down from relatively thick to thin, on a traditional flypress, the "working zone" can be adjusted by giving the flywheel another 1/2 turn or for that matter another 2 turns to keep the tooling in the active and desired working zone. In the case of the cam operated press, something else must be adjusted to keep the working zone in the 2/3 to 7/8 range of cam travel. This would require an adjustment system, such as a threaded rod or turnbuckle in the force transmission system or blocks under the work, adjustment of the bed or the location of the camshaft. I have not yet been able envision an adjustment system that would be anywhere as simple as just giving the flywheel another turn or so. If alot of high volume production is desired, that does not require significant adjustments of the working zone, the cam flypress should be considered. I trust I have made myself clear without being too wordy. If I have not made myself clear, please respond and I will try to clarify.

I would suggest going with a used Milwaukee. I have seen them for $100 - $150. This is what I did and am very happy with my saw. If the Northern tool saw breaks where do get parts or repairs?

Skunkriv, Good idea on changing the blade size periodically to change the points of cutting contact on blades! I tried tipping and repostioning the hammer head too reduce contact but it just did not work to reclamp etc. That would have helped as cutting a 3" Octagon on a sledgehead, as full cutting contact was just too much for the saw light duty chop saw. stjohnbarleycorn Yes a "gas axe" is a ox/ac or ox/propane torch.

I had been looking for a small puch press at a junkyard when I was considering building a flypress. The Frame, bed and ram are all premade. Just replace the crank and flywheel with a screw assembly. The Ram and bed plate may not be standard for flypress tooling but were made standardized easy tooling changes.

Remember when you quench and temper to make certain the center of the hammer face is harder than the edges. This is against the physics of the standard qenching and tempering processes. I know some good hammer makers quench their hammer heads with a full stream garden hose on the center of the face, Making this the most rapidly cooled area of the hammer. If you quench the hammer in container of fluid the edges will cool most rapidly make the edges the hardest not the center of the hammer face. This is what you don't want is hard edges as they will chip. Also a stress releive (heating and very slow cooling) before heat treatment would be good and reduce chance of cracking during heatreat, although not generally absolutely required Rather one step quench and temper, I would recommend quenching and cooling the hammer to under tempering temperature and then use a toaster oven torch to accurately temper at a known temeperature. After the oven quench reheat the eye hammer to soften the eye area being careful not to overheat and soften the faces. (You don't want the eye area brittle and break) And oh by the way remember the heatreaters rule of 1 hour per inch of thickness... Really hard to do with a forge or torch As an alternate after the hardening you could heat the eye of the hammer and watch the temper colors run. This will give better control than trying to temper the hammer with the residual heat from the quenching operation.