Steve Sells

I had not thought of that, Since I replace my 14 inch chop saw blades when they get too small, I have a free source of those blades for the table saw as I replace them when they are about 6 or 7 inches, and that's the size this Old Craftsmen table saw ($20 at yard sale last summer) uses.

not only will that assist the angles, but depth as well Frosty is da Man !

Ok, so this is what I'm gathering from your input:
Forge, normalize every once and a while
?Anneal?
grind to final shape
?normalize?
Harden
ASAP Temper

correct, only reason to anneal is to make softer for grinding.
Temper immediately after hardening to prevent the quenching stress from fracturing the harden blade.

You got it!

looks like you guys are catching on well, soon I can pass on the mantle of moderating this section to one of you:)

normalizing should be a part of all blacksmithing operations to relieve stress. which in turn help prevent warping and cracking.

Annealing is to lessen the amount of grinder belts/files we wear out, as Hardened steel will eat them a lot faster than the softened steel.

grinding can also introduce tress into the metal. so even with all this other stuff goingon, I still normalize a few times after grinding to make sure, then I harden. And I always temper ASAP after hardening, as I turned a nice fencing 'off hand' dagger into 3 boot knives, by not tempering soon, and it cracked into pieces while it was waiting, from the stress.

Of course most times there is a little more grinding to do after, to clean up scale from the hardening operation, as well as final sharpening to give it the edge.

im not quite sure some of you understood what i meant, especially the one who said something about "not making friends"

No, you sir are the one that is missing it. I don't know who your teacher friend is, but no one knows everything, not me, not him and not you. We all have much to learn. One thing you need to learn is how much time it take to learn to make a sword, but maybe your school years ends MUCH later than the rest of the USA. Even though on one hand you admit you know nothing, on the other you tell a few of us that DO make high end blades, that you do know more than we do.

It was also insulting to tell us you don't need us anymore after getting an answer to a simple question. But dry type in a forum often does not convey the real meanings behind the words, and misunderstandings are common. Everyone makes mistakes, in time we all will see. Good luck I never said don't try, I was trying to inform you as to how deep that pool you jumped into really is.

Just trying to find out if Johnptc gave the wrong link, we try to keep correct information on I Forge Iron. I have dealt with McMaster they have an outlet close by and i never saw the nickel alloyed steel there. Just trying to check.

John I don't see any L-6 or 15n20 at that link, only SS and 1095, where is it ?

Oooo too tired to think, I will go sit in the corner now :(

Why would that be banned in Oz ? What do Aussies fear from white brass?

[LDW] I got a bunch of chipper blades today made from D2, They are about 3 feet lon and 4 inches wide. I split one with a plasma cutter
[steve sells] were you trying to splt it ?
[LDW] Yes, they are 1/2" thick Would you let it air harden or quench in oil?
[JJ] i air hardened 2 d-2 blades recently...rockwell low 60's.
[LDW] I have never worked with D2, looking forward to it.
[steve sells] for D-2 I would use interrupted Edge quench in oil, same as I do the H-13
[LDW] what is interupted quench?
[JJ] what rockwell you looking for there steve? interrupted...in and out,
[steve sells] only immerse the edge for 1/2 inch or so and remove till oils borns off, dunk again,,, each time allowing the heat from the spine to temper a buit as we go
[steve sells] after allowing to finish air cooling, I do a 2 hour temper in the oven
[Rich Hale] Steve is that better than what the companies recommend?
[JJ] wonder if it would work to temper in a batch of chicken wings...oil coat from chicken wings all ov er b lade eventually
[steve sells] I have papers for both air or oil. most do not sugget oil in the normal way of dunking and leaving it in there, as its too severe
[steve sells] I learned about interpreted quench from my blade teacher, Bill Wyant that was a Govt test engineer
[JJ] what rockwell steve? blade vs spine?
[steve sells] I dont do a lot with air steels, not much difference, but I use files to test, I dont have a machine so they could be the same
[JJ] i use files also
[steve sells] : I need to buy my own set
[JJ] enco $104
[Rich Hale] : R Testor $200
[steve sells] Last I checked the enco was 125 nice to see somethi9ngs is cheaper these days
[Rich Hale] May not work for you as it is limited in thickness you can test but I can hook you up
[JJ] some form of rockwell testing is a must for tempering b lades and tools.
[steve sells] $200 for a testor more accurate thanthe files I like that idea, but need money, and the more accurate then more meaningful the results of the testing
[JJ] files come only in 5 point increme nts...ie, Rc 40 - 65.
[steve sells] I have no idea how this meteorite blade is going to harden up but its got a strange "glow" at 60 grit like 200 nickel sheet does
[jeremy k] I didn't know files came in different hardnesses - Hummmm
[ApprenticeMan] A set of rockwell files Jeremy
[JJ] i got mine by searching enco website, "rockwell hardness files"
[jeremy k] what are the standard files at for hardness?
[steve sells] I think the set I borrow is 40-45 45-50 50-55 55-60 60-65
[Rich Hale] And remember not to test damascus with a Rockwell testor
[JJ] next time i'm heat treating jere, i'll test some.
[steve sells] Question for everyone.. HOW hard do we need to make a knife ?????
[ApprenticeMan] depends on what it is to do
[LDW] 58-60 ?
[steve sells] Perfect answer Sam
[Rich Hale] Depends on the knife its use and the material and size
[lobodag] : who"s different standards varies in manufacture
[JJ] i like a chain saw file to just slide o ver the b lade edge and not cut it. but i want it to cut the spine. that's ab out 62 Rc b lade
[steve sells] we mentioned the files set, and JJ mentioned chain sawe file, What other ways can we test to see our blades are what we wanted?
[lobodag] I think there is only three left here simonds ,nickelson and starret
[JJ] brass test
[LDW] brass rod but I have never done it
[JJ] bending test
[LDW] cutting with it
[brucegodlesky] I use the brass rod test as a GO/NOGO test
[JJ] 10:24 pm: at gunsmithing school i was taught the "torque"test
[brucegodlesky] whats that JJ?
[Rich Hale] Bruce the bend test is alot like that:)
[JJ] good blade should twist 1/3 around itself in the vixce and snap b ack to original shape if spine is correct.
[steve sells] that one I aint heard...
[LDW] that sounds like it would be terrible if your knife was too hard.
[Rich Hale] Yep
[jeremy k] my luck it would stay twisted
[JJ] lobo, wrap the text b lade in a fire hose, wear all sorts of protective gear
[LDW] I meant you would break your knife instead of getting a chance to re-temper
[steve sells] I have heard of just 45 degree bend and return for swords. brass rod for all edges. and once in a while as destructive test, 90 w/o breaking , and some times cut blade into sections to check for bad welds
[Rich Hale] Wot is the bend test the abs uses Steve?
[steve sells] I am not abs member, but their paper work says no more than 1/2 way crack in a cold 90 degree bend. Hey JJ do you make guns ? or just took the classes?
[JJ] 10:34 pm: i made sniper rifles
[steve sells] I have been helping children ( 7 yr old on average) hammer on clay all day they are trying to copy what I did on the Hot iron in the forge we even gave them 2x6 to use as anvil faces for the demo at the farm today.
[jeremy k] you could have just said you wanted to be like a 7yr old and play with clay today LOL
[Finnr] Got a young fella starting classes after school's out. Confidence building thing
[steve sells] I have to return for all ages tomorrow 9am to 6pm I got to help kids hammer clay what a day LOL
[Finnr] LOL!! Jeremy
[steve sells] We did get away from the topics didnt we?>
[Finnr] Yep
[jeremy k] how does the copper rod hardness test work?
[steve sells] I place the blade edge against it and press gentily I watch the edge flex, and return smoothly
[jeremy k] sideways?
[markb] what deoes the flex tell you
[steve sells] that my edge is not too brittle to hold up to use
[Finnr] if it flexes and returns to shape it's good if it chips or bends and stays it's too hard or too soft
[Rich Hale] I think every one that makes blades should do a lot of testing some of it destructive and keep a log
[steve sells] too soft we get to fix it, too hard we get to re make it
[markb] If it's too hard would it crack or just not flex
[Finnr] I destroy a knife from each batch of new steel. Even if I (GASP ) paid for the steel
[steve sells] Most testing I do is harmless to the blade if it was made correctly, if I goofed, it may be ruined, but rather to me in testing than to a client using it.
[lobodag] at what hardness is this workable?
[steve sells] I ruined the first 2 attempts of the project knifes, and decided I should either buy buy NEW O-1, ot give up making blades...
, they cracked on me, but the first cracked after I normalized, I was still grinding them not heat treated yet., and the second I heard shatter while it was air cooling from the normalizing cycle, as I just finished forging, while cooling in still air. so I cant trust that bar of steel for anything. the big companies call it Quailty Control
[Rich Hale] Did you put it in ashes to let it cool after normalizing?
[steve sells] : I don't use O-1 alot, but I have used it before and never had then crack while cooling. I have not got the new steel since we talked yet Rich, this is what I was telking you last night, before you suggested I use the hot box., I will place in the hot box from now on
[Rich Hale] What is a hot box?
[steve sells] steel pail filled with Vermiculite for sloe cooling, maybe that term is a midwestern thing
[Finnr] I call it a pail of vermiculite
[Rich Hale] Mine is a bucket...SW thing
[jeremy k] corner full of dust here
[steve sells] LOL Jeremy
[Finnr] Dust in a blacksmith shop? LOL!
[steve sells] well it cant hurt to slow cool all the steels, I always normalize after forging, but the annealing pail. never though of that for oil cooled steels
[Rich Hale] My biggest product is dirt
[steve sells] I learned new trick
[jeremy k] would a pale full of clinkers works?
[steve sells] try It jeremy let us know
[Rich Hale] Coal dust will so will dry lime
[Finnr] I use wood ash a lot
[Finnr] got plenty of ash heating with wood
[markb] koawool blanket
[Rich Hale] Ash? not so much here. Wot you working on now Mark?
[jeremy k] I get wheelbarrows full of ash every winter
[steve sells] Oz bear shaped thing
[markb] havn't started anything new but have idea
[steve sells] Such as? we may steal your idea, but take the risk
[markb] little dagger full tang black micarta handle 1084, no new ideas here
[Rich Hale] That will look good
[markb] hope so, maybe faster this time
[steve sells] : simple show off the lines of the blade
[markb] show off the shadow scratches LOL
[Rich Hale] : I need help on the scratches Mark?
[markb] Oh yes, they haunt me
[Rich Hale] What do you do for finish?
[markb] I went to 400

I broke off the Ice flow portion of this thread and moved it to the Everything Else dept.

Glad you were able to rescue the hammer !

Looking good Mark, and I gotta love the coil of 12-2 romex as a backdrop.

Using the soap was not a good idea, Only use the normal Straight borax.

Since this has absolutely nothing to do with Blades, I will relocate this thread from the Knives subsection to elsewhere.

you forgot NE Indiana. But welcome anyway

Is that anything like Nova Roma? Welcome to I Forge Iron.

the blank and unknowing mind is a wonderful thing to see.

Welcome to I Forge Iron

strange is why this was posted in the blacksmiths section? Its funny to see these things tho. Makes me appreciate my annoying neighbors more, as I now know they could be much more dangerous, if they had any creativity and at least half a brain.

180 layers, a rough shape for a knife. I decided this section will be shark tooth, for lack of a better word. Its a variation of a ladder pattern, see the cuts? from almost half the depth, to a bit over half the width, to give a saw tooth look. I seem to have nicked the leg vise a bit, but its not the first time I did that .

after I flatten I will draw it out to proper thickness, then final shaping for all, including the currently weird looking tip.

... he mostly works with saw steel (very durable to my understanding, and 440 stainless steel too) so thanks for the input, i dont really need much more advice since this guy (tommy) is supposed to be really good. i'll post pictures of some of his works, he makes some HUGE swords (from what i remember when i was younger).

Don't need advice anymore ? I hope you didn't mean that the way it sounds.

if this is how you get the bevel, how does manage the distal taper?

Good luck a knife is not a good first project, but have fun. Read through the knife section for more information as to why I say this.

Friday night we have a knife chat here in our chat room Friday 10PM eastern, they are reposted in this section of the forum. Read them and most the rest of this section, and you will have a better idea of what you are in for, if they don't scare you away, then I expect to see you in the Knife Chat every friday

Welcome to the group.

Note too that nowhere in the original post does it say the pattern welding is for a knife---could be for a ring or a candy dish and so not need high C content...;

True but he did post it in the knife section... just as with the borax questions, we assume its for use as a flux, not laundry as its a blacksmiths group. the lawn mower blade could be for cutting grass.. we have to assume a few things to answer most the questions posted in this place.

He asked about 15N20. everything else in conjecture anyway, nothing wrong with that ;)

knee mail is being sent

looks good, but I gotta ask, does it come with Instructions in 8 languages

You said it was a Chinese tool you re built so I had to ask I will go sit in the corner now....

how did you Figure less power? The Tubes themselves don't care what power factor the ballast gets, only what is delivered to them after the ballast.

240 volts at 5 amps is the same power as 120 volts at 10 amps, its still 1200 watts aka Volt/Amps. Main reason in industry, is more ballasts per 20 or 30 amp light circuit at 240 than only half that amount of light circuits for 120 volts ballasts for the relay's to run .