Steve Sells

[Rich Hale] Take a knife that you know you like the way it cuts, (when the wife is out for the day) use a magnifier and looke close at the angles. [markb] always liked the way CASE knives sharpened [Finnr] Lacking a decent grinder I hand finish up to buffing. Takes too long but it will pay for the new grinder [steve sells] no one should be able to tell if its hand or machine if we do out jobs correctly, all they see is a nice finish [Rich Hale] Run a black marker on the side of the blade and blacken the edge ,,,,take a small stone or fine file and see wot angle it takes to remove the line right down the the cutting edge Does that make sense? [Finnr]Nothing gets on my sales table that isn't up to standard [markb] to determin angle [Rich Hale] Yes if you know that angle works see how to duplicate it. Then do the same thing with and ax or a hatchet [Finnr] Logical [Rich Hale] Look at the angle of the file or stone for both tests Then take a box cutter blade and do the same thing use and old one and sharpen it...keep a new one to look at. [markb] Lots to learn, but i have time latly [Rich Hale] Now sharpen everything you can find. The do some cutting tests...box cutter blades ar great sa they are cheap and you can compare noew to old to wot you have sharpened [Finnr] When I was cooking for a living a razor sharp edge was a must. No time to fool around . A dull knife is dangerous [Rich Hale] : I sharpen box cutters that I use i n the shop until they are wayy to small to use any more [markb] used to shave with straight razor and would try to sharpen- dull [Rich Hale] You still have a razor Make? give it a try after you do these things..I would strop it [Finnr] I do the same with X-acto blades [markb] Sold them all, lots of box cutters tho [Rich Hale] Folks talk about angles for this and for that..you will find that all sizes may need different angle surely a razor needs a keen edge and and axe is a wedge. Try a shop knife with a little "tooth

[steve sells] tonight we have a request to cover Sharpening. Mark you asked, did you have something in mind or just general information? [markb] flat grind to 1/16' before heat treat then to sharpen you have grind again? [LDW] : I tell my kids every time I make a knife this one is sharper than anyone I have ever made [markb] or you have a chisel [steve sells] Yes mark leave a little metal to be sacrificial, because warpage is more likely to happen in thin areas, also the de-carb from the hardening [Finnr] I grind a bit to remove the decarb and establish the sharp edge [markb] So how would you do this without a grinder stones? [steve sells] I use the belt grinder [Finnr] Abrasive paper on a flat backing [markb] what grit [steve sells] files work,, actually hand files have one nice thing, its easy to KNOW when you remove the de-carb and get into good hard steel [Finnr] Yep! gets harder and you can feel it for sure [steve sells] 120 or 220 for after the HT then work finer till I get where I want [LDW] Hand sanding with a block of wood to the finest grit you wish to go to then hit on a buffer. Thats what I did for years [markb] ok sharpening on a grinder blade up? [steve sells] since I, and many others recommend more than one temper cycle, I temper first ASAP after hardening at 320 to 340 range, thermometer in oven is close enough for the first temper cycle this relieves stress from the thermal shock of the quench that may cause the steel to crack [Finnr] For now I finish my edges with a series of oilstones from soft to black super fine [steve sells] then I can clean up and the next temper is close to what I want for a targeted hardness, my thermometer or temper color [Rich Hale] Blade edge down for me [Finnr] me to. it's easy for me to catch the belt [markb] up? [Finnr] yep [markb] The first 320f temper will solve a problem for me [Rich Hale] If you stand to the side of me and watch me grind a blade on the belt grinder you can see teh wheel push in and deform that is dangerous if the cutting edge is facing into the grind [markb] do you slack belt on sharpening or contact wheel [steve sells] 10:15 pm: for my grinder I have 40 (replaced the 60 I used to use) and 120 Blaze, 220 and 400 Klingspor 321, and Norton x45 x 16, plus hand SC in 400, 500, 600, 1200, 1500, 2000, 2500, 3000. I do not use them all on any one blade, I use what the blade finish needs [Rich Hale] I dont right over the contact wheel I want total control on the angles [Finnr] Slack for a Moran type grind for me [steve sells] I slack for sharpening, but my slack is very tight, not loose at all. I actually run the belt looser when I use the contact wheel than when I do for slack belt grinding. [markb] I bought a grinder but not set up, start a whole new learning process [Rich Hale] It will be your best friend after you get to know it, wot kind is it? [markb] kmg vari speed, bought it in December [Finnr] : Just enough slack for a bit of give Steve? SWEET! [Rich Hale] GET some good belts and a pile of scrap steel [steve sells] : yup just a little give, on the finer belts I notice a BUMP when the splice comes over the flat platen [markb] i have lots of scap and I ordered belts, a variety [steve sells] also my Bader I slack grind with the combo platten , which is a 5 inch contact plus the short platen, so the slack area between is only about 4 inches [Finnr] LOL! I made lots of scrap learning what I have so far [markb] some ceramic and others 10" wheel and flat platen [steve sells] when I first got this (and I still do it) I ordered what I knew would do the order I had to get out the door, PLUS a 1 or 2 belts of a new type to test out. side by side, with what I knew worked well for me. [markb] I ordered 3 types in 50 120 400 [steve sells] Rich Hale here suggested the Blaze to me, and I have been buying those rather than the norton 960's and Klingspor ceramic ever since [Rich Hale] 4"x72"? [steve sells] I sill carry 120 grit in cheaper Norton 823 Zirconium for scale removal as scale ruins any new belt fast, so I use the cheaper cost belt for that only [Rich Hale] If you could test scale it is in the high rc60s [Rich Hale] I dont deal with scale [steve sells] that why I use throw away belts for scale removal @ 120 grit on one or 2 blades then throw it out, Old belt make heat, and that messes up the temper. [markb] how? [LDW] foil? Rich [Rich Hale] If I forge or weld a billet I remove scale with a carbide cutter in the mill or a hard grinding disc for heat treating I use Turco. it prevents scale in the forge, K and G sells it you dip let it dry for an hour and heat treat [markb] Good tip [steve sells] gas forge only ? or use with coal or charcoal? [Rich Hale] I have not tried it in coal [Finnr] I may give it a try over coal just to see [Rich Hale] It seems almost like a lacquer when dry, I am real careful when I put blades in and take them out [steve sells] me too they warp so easy when we squish them. I will turn this over to Rich Hale for a bit as I do ok, sharpening, but Rich knows a LOT more about the details of this topic than I do... so I bow to the more experienced man.. Rich if you please... [Rich Hale] Wot would you like to know about sharpening? [Finnr] You take your blades clear to the final edge on your grinder don't you Rich? [markb] Steps from tempered to final edge grits, or did we cover already [Rich Hale] Yes I do Finn I go up to about a 166 grit belt or so and then buff then to a finer belt and lightly touch the edge [markb] buff edge only or whole blade [Rich Hale] Ok Mark here is wot I do: I first polish the flats on the blade and then the hollow grind or now and then a flat grind. I always go to mirror polish, Then I do the edge ; I thin and sset the angles with a 120 grit belt. Then a 220. Then a 400 then a 1200 or finer then buff. I do not like to see any grinding marks anywhere on the blade. If I do I go back to whatever belt will remove them [markb] thats hard [Rich Hale] Then back to buff. then i use either a 15 micron or 9 micron belt for final edge. No that is persistence [markb] i have so many scratches with hand work grinder is scary, but i'm persistant [Rich Hale] There are really two kinds of edges. you can have a smooth edge that is really clean and nice even under a microscope. or one that has a little bit of a "tooth" to it. [markb] tooth would be what grit [Rich Hale] The grinder will take practice mark but it will get you farther in your work. 15 or 9 microns. It is not a "tooth that you can feel. let me explain that a bit [ApprenticeMan] I go 120, 220, 400 then fine scotch brite with green rouge to strop, and/or a buff on a soft wheel with green rouge [Rich Hale] You can get a small stick of white rouge from tandy that you apply to leather and use it to strop and edge after you can sharpened. I will polish the edge so it it realll smooth and sharp... like the barbers did with a leather strop for shaving with a straight razor. [Finnr] That's what I use on my strops [Rich Hale] That is a smooth clean edge. or yo can do like I do and use a fine belt after Buffing. Maybe a field exercise would help you decide wot you like [markb] ok

I used 4500 mix, rather than a normal 3500 PSI mix. 5/8 rebar on a 3 ft grid. Poured about 6 inches thick, on compacted paving gravel. I also added 8 inch pilings 5 ft down. Why? I live near a river (3 actually) so for the extra $230 I paid for all of this extra stuff ( I say extra because the Building Dept said a 4 inch mono-slab was plenty) I have peace of mind for the high water table and possible flooding. And less likely to have any trouble from having an electrician do the foundation work (thats me:D) I didn't worry about a Power Hammer as I cant have one here unless they start to make them very quiet and have NO vibrations. I can not add that extra support later for that little amount of money. I figure I am 46, and doing it this way I am good for this lifetime free of cracking and settling.

Tied up like a Gordon Knot Lovely pattern as always Jim. As for same steel, close if you forget about the Chrome and Moly in the L-6

If it was that simple, our pattern welded billets would be higher, not lower than the mean average carbon levels of the steels used. One problem with forge work is that carbon has a stronger affinity for air than for steel, so we normally lose carbon while forging. This effect is so common we plan ahead in our blades for the de-carb zones removal after final heat treat.

nothing like trying to learn a foreign language. Tried Ebonics once, but gave that up and switched to Japanese, it made much more seance.

IDK Frosty, my rents wer TL k?

its your call, but 5160 dont like to weld as easy as plain 10 series steel. Lower carbon is not easier, and in this case add the scaling of chrome.

I hope you have permission to be n the property, as well as for taking the metal from the railroad. Most will have you arrested, as theft is a felony.

Good thread. I am surprised we don't have more input here yet. One thing I get annoyed about, is when a person is asking a question and I see great answers, then mixed in with all this a clueless person feels a need to throw out some nonsense, with no personal experience, maybe a U tube video or role playing game to back them up. Maybe they just have a strong need to see their names in print, but it can make it very hard to learn for a noob who does not yet have the experience to tell the facts from the fantasy's, in essence it just gets the issues clouded. I don't see any problem with posting opinions. I just feel its best to state facts separate from an opinion that wants to be heard.

I don't know how this person did it, only how I would have.

cut a slit in the edge of the bar; forge weld in the tool steel; then final shape.

a very high percentage of the population has allergies to peanuts, not a good choice. Try making one good project, so you can sell it and buy s few simple items. we can make blades on the cheap, but there are limits.

IF you say so... what do I know

didnt it get hard enough in oil first?

Is there really a subject to this anymore?

Normalizing or not wont normally cause that, what temp was it before the quench. what temp was the quenchant, and what did you quench in, and what was the steel, and was that new or used?

At room temp it does not do much for a smith. This is one problem with some of the things we use, the MSDS is made for normal usages, and they don't all include our high temperature effects on the item. We need to know both.

If you search the posts in the knife section, there is a thread about veggie based oils going rancid, from natural decomposition.

yes, you don't really need to get real hot, it just makes it faster. Overworking it will work harden, and can get brittle.

All steel mill melt spec's have a variance for the alloys content. the 5160H is a tighter allowance in how much of what they have added. So rather than a carbon variance range of 0.56 to .064 in the specs as with a standard 5160, this is closer to 0.58 - 0.62 carbon allowed, etc... so I assume H is short for Higher tolerances?

This machete was a joint effort between my 15 yr old student Chris and myself. His grandfather has been bringing him to class for about 3 years now. So Chris wanted to make him a blade for the farm work, as a thank you. Grandfather told us what tasks he wanted it to perform, we did the rest, some gift huh? 15.5 inch 5160H blade, 1/4 thick, 2 1/8 wide, 21 inches over all, and tempered at 450F. POB is 2 inches in front of stabilized and figured maple handle, with 4 brass pins. you can see it is full tang to take abuse with an Oil finish. Works well on up to almost 3 inch green maple and pine branches with single chop, needed 6 chops for an old 4x4 fence post. I added an edge to the tip curve also for getting to roots, as this will be carried in the tractor, he has a little land to clear of sucker trees.

For me the reward of teaching is seeing the project grow beyond what I taught. I want my people to learn how to do things, not just copy me. I follow the old adage of teaching a man to fish and plant, rather than just giving him a meal. When I see a noob asking the same old questions over and over again, I get upset they are not paying attention, BUT when the questions start to evolve and go past the original topics parameters of what I taught, WOW, that is what makes it worth while for me. SO sometimes I get hate Mail for what I do here, I can live with that. As long as I see a possibility for returns like I have seen in some of my past teaching, I will take that risk. And if they offend me too much, as staff I can Nuke their login like a World of Warcraft character:)

Boric acid works Boric acid is not the same as borax. Borax is an acid at welding temps.

Right handed here, my Horn points to the left.