Muttt

Well, I pretty much answered all of my own questions. Although, I wouldn't mind it if people answer anyway. It will only help me learn. I went out and I fired it back up and turned it down to a reducing heat. I just kept taking it to orange and then pounding the hell out of it. It's pretty hard to work. About like starting out on a new railroad spike. Eventually, with enough hammering, I finally got in down to a little more than a 1/4 inch. I left enough for me to grind down past the crud and still have a decent width on the back of the blade. I was suprised how much longer it ended up getting. I grew about 6 inches longer. But, it came out pretty good in the end. It was certainly welded. I don't see any voids so far, I hope i don't find any later. But, if I do I will just work around it and call it a character mark. Here's what I got so far. I'll show you more later once I shape it and grind it ................ It's probably gonna make a nice tanto Thanks for all the help with it. Mutt

OK, things appear to be improving with this cable welding ....... Today I fired up the forge and got a new piece of old crane cable (it is a different type, a little thicker and more strands, felt heavier) and welded the ends closed with my wire feed welder to keep it together. Once I got it up to heat I stuck the cable in and let it burn off the grease inside for a little while. Once it was good and hot and clean, I brushed it and fluxed the hell out of it with 20 mule team borax. What I realized was that I wasn't using enough flux last time. This time I poured it on and on. Eventually, it looked like a glazed donut from crispy cream. Then I knew I had enough flux. When I stuck it in the fire, the flut didn't disappear this time but floated on the surface and bubbled a little and formed a nice smooth surface while in the fire. Once it was yellow, I stuck it in the vise and gave it a twist. I then fluxed, heated and did the twist again. I knew i was making progress because the cable didn't try to untwist in the vise and stayed twisted tightly. I now know that I was nowhere near the right temp last time because everthing felt different this time. Every time I put it back in I let it soak till it was yellow and fluxed it several times. Hammer lightly a few times, fluxed and then stuck it back in. After about the 5th time hammering on the anvil, it lost that dull thud sound and started to sound like I was hitting the anvil with the hammer. It was ringing through like the cable was now solid. Here are some pictures of my progress. Click on them to see a bigger picture.............. Cable in forge at welding heat (ready to come out) Picture of cable fresh out of forge after some hammering in to square Picture of cable after cooled ...... does this look welded????? Close up of center of cable I do have a couple question though. I am not really sure what to do next. 1. How long do I need to heat to welding temp??? 2. When it's finally welded, do I then treat it like it is a piece of bar stock and forge at a lower orange temp??? 3. How long to I have to keep using flux .... particularly on the piece shown in my pics??? I don't want to burn this piece out. It seems to have welded fairly nicely and I don't know when to transition to the knife making portion of the forging process. 4. At this point, can I grind away some of the outter layer that still has the cable texture and then use it like bar stock??? 5. Does this piece look like it is welded enough or do I need weld it some more??? At this point, I am kinda unsure what to do. I know how to forge a bar of steel or a file into a knife. But, not sure what happens next with this piece of cable. Any guidance would be highly appreciated. Mutt

When I was a kid, the house I grew up in was built with those square nails just like that guy was making. Mutt

That's a crappy knife .... mine looks much better ..... LOL (P.S. we both made ours together at the same forge .... LOL)

I make piece pipes out of soapstone. I also make wooden handles for the pipes. I coat both with beeswax for a natural protective finish. Anyway .... what I'm getting at is that I have to heat the stone and/or wood in the oven on the lowest setting (I think it's 125) then leave it in there for 20 minutes or so. Anyway, once I pull it out, I just rub the bees wax along the surface and it just runs into all the nooks and crannies. It's very easy to apply ..... just need to warm the surface to make it flow and stick. You can get bees wax in a huge chunk at any Micheals craft supply store. Mutt

Nope ......... gotta new tank of gas ready to go. It doesn't look half bad today. May be able to get some done this afternoon. I was told the wool fibers were a hazard when cutting. But, once installed in the forge and all the loose fibers have been blown out, that it was safe to work with. I need to go back to the shop were I bought this and get the MSDS and be certain. Mutt

If your knife parts are not sensitive to moisture, use a typical hand held spray bottle (like a windex bottle) and mist the area after a couple passes. That keeps things cool. I usually do that when I am grinding down a bevel with a 4 inch angle grinder. Keeps things cool so you don't mess up the heat treat. Mutt

Still raining. Been waiting to try this welding again. But, it's been raining off and on for three days. Wish my forge was covered ...... guess I'll have to wait.

Oh ****, mine was sanded with 220 on an orbital sander. It then went to my bench grinder. I have a hard cloth wheel on the left and a soft cloth wheel on the right. I have three different kinds of rouge from rough to fine. I guess I need to go back to the sand paper and try some 400 600 and 800. Here is how it turned out ..... even with just using 220 and the buffing wheels ......... I am hoping for better though. It doesn't look bad until you look at it really close. But, I was really hoping for a better finish. Mutt

What did you use to get that mirror finish??? Me and my son have each made a knife, but even though we could get them to shine really nice, there are still a few sanding lines visible. Mutt

Depends on the state with the traps.

Sportsmans Camo and Tequila Sunrise. I bought I piece of each. They are 2 x 2 inches and 12 inches long. Well see how they work out.

Well ....... I figured I would go over to the "Dark Side" and I went ahead and ordered some of the DymondWood from HUT. It looked pretty cool in the pics. And hey, it was pretty cheap. 20 bucks for a 2x2 inch 12 inch long piece (enough for 2 or 3 knifes). I'll let ya all know what I think of it when I get some. I've always been a die hard "natural wood" person in the past. We shall see if I actually "turn" to the dark side ...... LOL Mutt

Thanks for the input. maybe I will make some punches out of the bigger sizes. I have ruined several "good" chizels working on hot iron. If the tools are homemade from rebar then ...... nothing is lost but a free tool. Mutt

Yes, everybodies input helps alot. Now I think I understand stabalized wood a little better. Maybe I'll give it a shot. If I don't like it I can try other items instead. Thanks for all the input. Wasn't trying to get things heated ..... sorry if I sounded that way. Anyway, no I know what stabablized wood is. Thanks Mutt

I was just wondering if concrete rebar was worth working to make tools or knifes or anything??? Mutt

Just turn down the gas and the air but still keep it lit. Makes it a toaster instead of a jet engine. Doesn't matter if it spits and sputters a little ....... then when your ready, just turn it back up. I think and idle would be more hassle and expensive than it is worth. I don't like to turn my down anyway. My fire bricks glow when I am at temp. It takes a while to get them like that. Turning it down would waste gas trying to get it back to that glowing heat. Mutt

My forge is made from an 11 inch wide 1/2 inch thick piece or pipe that is 18 inches deep (yeah I know ..... overkill) anyway, I welded it onto a piece of u channel and put it on top of a post and welded the post to a truck tire rim for a base. My forge is about five feet high (I'm six feet tall .... so it puts it right at nipple/armpit level) so I can straighten my arm and stick it straight into the opening. Plus I don't have to bend to put things in and take them out, and I can see what's going on all the time ...... without bending. When I am done with my anvil table .... the top of my anvil will be at the level of my elbow. No bending to poudn with hammer. Your back will thank you. Mutt

I saw some really cheezy really simply built gas forges that can easily get to weld temps. I didn't want to mess around with venturi's so I made mine with a blower. I got an 11 inch wide piece of water pipe from an aircraft carrier from the local scrap yard. It's about 18 inches deep. I welded a circular plate over the back end and torched a 1 1/2 inch hole in it so I can stick a long knife for sword out the back while heating. I torched another 1 1/2 inch hole on one side and welded a 1 1/2 inch pipe coupler to the side. Then, I screwed a 6 inch long piece of pipe into that and added a gas valve on the elbow. I then attached another pipe to the elbow and I use a shop vac on reverse for a simple blower. I use an extension cord with a dimmer switch to control the air speed. I had a local propane shop make me an adapter so I can just screw on one of the hosed I use for my grill when camping. I use a 5 gallon propane tank. I lined the inside of the pipe with kaowool and laid two hard fire bricks in the bottom for a sacrificial surface because using flux eats the wool. The whole thing is really simple and easy to use. If I need more heat, I put a small piece of fire brick in the opening to choke it down a little and increase the heat inside. Easy to build, all parts can be bought at home depot and a camping store or propane store. The Kaowool and fire bricks can be bought at a clay/kiln supply store. Here is a pic of my forge with only one layer of kaowool and a soft fire brick out front for a shelf to set your work on ........ Here is another pic of my forge with the second layer of wool and a brick in the opening........... Here is a pic of it fired up ....... you can see the gas valve and the shop vac hose. I leave the forge in the weather. I can just detach the shop vac and take it inside when it rains........ Hope some of this helps. There is no need to dump tons of money on burners and all that. Some of the simplest things work great forges and it doesn't need to be "over engineered". You can see where my pipe is welded to the side of the forge and the six inch pipe ...... that is my burner. Simple and easy to replace ..... unscrew it and get a new one from home depot. Here is a pic of the a really simple design that I based my forge off of. This one is really small so I super sized mine a little ...... Mutt

Well, all I have for an anvil right now is a hunk of railroad track. Works well for knifes, but no hardy hole and lacking for anything like welding. I am in Bremerton Wa. I am deffinitely at sea level. Anyway, I am using some torch goggles and they work really well to look inside. I don't ever see the flux dancing inside the forge. It just melts down and soaks into the cable. When I pull the cable out, and pour on some powdered borax, it crusts up like sugar and then melts into a buttery fluid and dances around on the cable .... like boiling butter in a skillet. Anyway, then I stick it back in and whatever flux is caked on the outside just melts away. Not sure what that means. The weather is supposed to be nice, so I am gonna fire it up tomorrow and try again. Mutt

Now you can use the other end to make me one ...... LOL. But, then I'd have to get an anvil to put it in. Still only have a piece of railroad track for an anvil. It works good for shaping the bevel on a blade (because it has that nice curve on top), but not much good for big stuff. Xxxx ..... guess you'll have to send me the anvil too ...... LOL. Just kidding. There's a great discount tool store in town here with a really good reputation. They have a decent size one there for only 70 bucks. Nice job on your bic. Mutt

well ...... I've really appreciated all the help with this. I haven't been able to fire up my forge lately do to weather. It rains alot here in Washinton State and it's getting to be that time of year. I hope to give the cable another try this weekend. I'll drop a line and let ya'll know how it goes this time. By the way, where is the best place to pick up some half circle swages or v notches. Actually that could be a new project. get a nice fat piece of bar stock and make notches in it using different size bars as a shape and hammer it into the bar stock to make the half circles.

Well, I followed alot of the advise put out earlier in this post. I took what little pieces I had left of the Kaowool and relined the forge with a second layer of wool. This reduced the inner space of the forge by at least 1/3 if not a little more. I took a small piece of soft fire brick and place it into the opening. It closed what was left of the opening by half. So, I actually reduced the opening by 75 percent (I think). Anyway, It made a huge difference in size ...... heat and my gas/air mixture. This thing blows way way hotter than it did before. I put a piece of small bar stock in there and it got way too hot (compared to the temp I normally smith at). Anyhow here is a pic of my changes..... So, I took this sorry piece of cable I have been working on for the last two days and I put it back in there. I quickly got it to that "yellow" color. I pulled it out and put it back in the vice and qave it a twist. You could really feel the difference. So I poured on the flux and I saw it dancing around like boiling water on the outside of the bar (like it was described to me earlier). So, I stuck it back in the fire and watched the flux quickly dissappear. Anyhow, I must have cooked all the carbon out of it over the last two days because at this point it basically started to come apart in the forge. The strands of the cable were breaking and burning on the ends. When I pulled it out, I tried to lightly tap it and it got worse. But, the rest of it basically just ended up a burnt out bundle of wire'y crap. I gave it another twist and I could tell that the stuff in the center was actually welded together .... but the outter cable were all burned out and it all just cam apart. The last inch or so actually appears that it actually welded up. So, I just scrapped that piece and will try again with a new piece. Here is a pic of the sorry cable that was left over when I was all done.................... Thanks for all the help so far. By the way, filling your tank really helps when your trying to tune your forge. For a while there, I couldn't figure out why I couldn't keep the flame constant. Then, I realized my tank was empty. Anyway, I really appreciate that last post. There is alot of really good info in that post. Hopefully, it will all come together next time I try with a new piece of cable. I always weld the ends so they dont unravel when I heat it up. Mutt

So basically, Stabalization is like turning your wood into a product more similar to micartar block (I think that's the way you spell it). If I am going to put wood on a handle, it's gonna stay wood (maybe stain, oiled or polyurathaned) it appears that stabalized wood is more of a plasticized product. I'm not saying I don't like the way it looks, I'm just saying I will just stick with wood. If I want a plasticized product, I'd use micartar or plastic. Why ruin perfectly good wood and wood grain. Mutt