John Larson Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 I've spent some time recently on an old shop made self-contained hammer that I built in 2001-2002. I was doing exploration without much guidance. I read all I could find about Nazel hammer valving, pestered Tom Clark, and used a few of my own ideas. I'm going to try to import some pictures. The first one is sideways despite my having uprighted it before importing it. It shows the basic configuration, especially the newly minted anvil made from slabs in the stash, after machining. The stepped pyramid anvil is very convenient for welding the slabs top and bottom. Previously I just had the central 5" block and that was too little. Now the mass ratio is about 15:1, or a bit more. The tup is now 155# and a bit more than I wanted given the cylinders. But it works fairly well. I think 125# would be much better. The second shot shows the driver side where the 7.5 HP 3 phase 1140 rpm motor, throw switch, and one-shot oiler are evident. Picture three shows the passenger side with the tower plate removed. I just cut the crank's 15 x 3/4 disk to improve the balancing, but more balancing work is needed. Picture 4 shows the top end. The crank pivots the pump cylinder off the top clevis and the cylinder's oscillating mass makes it tough to balance as compared to an articulated connecting rod and rigid cylinder body. Three hoses are used to enable more air flow and two throttle valves are used (top and bottom). They work akin to Nazel's. I use check valves to admit air and use a shimmed pop-off valve to keep the bottom pump chamber's pressure under control; on the top the throttle bleeds off air to ambient via the treadle. I use a one-shot machine tool oiler to put oil into each end of the pump cylinder. Picture five shows the elementary treadle that is actuated by toe with heel on the floor. Sixth is a shot of the top throttle valve. Its three exhaust ports to ambient are apparent. The guts' profiles were copied from old Nazel info. Seventh is a shot of the key-in-keyway guides. This is where I first used this scheme and I used it many more times on utility hammers before developing the octagon system. The tup is really too short. Some time in the future I'll create a whole new setup based upon my current knowhow. So why am I showing this old mule now? I've been talking about it on my blog and someone asked for pictures. The machine was created as a study and not as a production piece. I learned a lot and will be learning more, but for now I wanted the larger anvil mass and the counterweighted crank to improve full song stability. It worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonjic Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 Great Stuff John! Thanks for the pics, they speak a thousand words. I can see how the extra weight will stop her running for the door! How hot does she run ? I did a temp / time run test on a 2 cwt Massey last week - after 6 hours we were measuring over 100 C at the compressor side ! Gonna have to get my head round the valving you have done there. I will design & build one, one day....like you, just because :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Larson Posted September 9, 2012 Author Share Posted September 9, 2012 I haven't done measurements except by touch. It does not get hot. I had a Ukranian smith in the shop for an afternoon as he made tree limbs from heavy stock. He worked it hard and it moved around badly. It didn't get hot, however. That was the episode that started me thinking about either scrapping it or doing more work on it to improve it. Don't copy my valving with the check valves. Nazel had a better idea IMHO. I think a 5-port valve timed with respect to the crank could be an improvement. If you use Facebook, try my daily post on johnc.larson.14 where there are many knife guys posting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Fraser Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Thanks for for all the work you went to on the hammer, and thanks even more for taking the time to post the pictures. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 The early 20th century Massey hammers had really simple valving as in head slapping simple. Think two 1/4 turn ball valves with check valves and that 's the control valves. The Massey had more complex spool valves to do the same thing but I like the KISS method. I'll dig around in my saved files for the patent, it tells all with print drawings. As I recall it was a 1906 Massey patent but I could be wrong on the date, darned TREE. Frosty the Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Sculpture Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 It seems you are all business when it comes to design John, I would like to see you craft one up with some bling someday :lol: Pretty silly I know but this is one of the things that has always attracted me to older equipment and what has turned me off to the new hammers... <_< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Larson Posted September 10, 2012 Author Share Posted September 10, 2012 This posting is of a test machine that has been through more changes than I can even remember, not one for appearance. WTF is power hammer bling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wroughton Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Wikipedia has Bling (in this context) as : Bling (or bling-bling) is a slang term popularized in hip hop culture, referring to flashy, ostentatious or elaborate jewelryand ornamented accessories that are carried, worn or installed, such as cell phones or tooth caps. In other words, polish that thing up. Chrome a handle or two? It does have a kind of Ruskie, Stalingrad kinda feel to it. No seriousness was used in this message, but i still approve it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Sculpture Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Not to offend either, your machines are made for purpose not looks. I am a visual person, I surround myself with interesting and inspiring objects tools included. Do some cars look fast standing still, do they sell more cars this way, depends on the market. Not sure it applies to hammers, just an idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r smith Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Have either of you gus looked at the museum of making link i another thread? Great site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r smith Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Link here: http://www3.museumofmaking.org/dbtw-wpd/machine_video.htm this guy is amazing, he has a cute little "table top" bradley in his still pics. The little guy fits on a standard pallet and is maybe the nicest bradley on the planet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Larson Posted September 11, 2012 Author Share Posted September 11, 2012 I wasn't being gruff and ornery. Some guys like the old rounded castings from the cast iron era. If you surround yourself with them you'r better like them. And I know curves rule the roost in art. Those old machine shapes often were there to ward off cracks in castings. Shiny paint and pin stripes and polished brass pieces on steam engines are nice in a museum. Short lived, however, on hammers when forging, at least from the bottom die downward. Modern Iron Kiss design is in the 1930s era of American Art Deco--skyscrapers, bridges, battle ships. The self-contained hammer that you suggest is Stalingrad style has no style other than cut-and-try forms, I admit. Bling is not for Iron Kiss, but neither is ugly. Form follows function. KISS in my double entendre name stands for Keep It Super Simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wroughton Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 I hear nothing but good things about your hammers John and the wisecrack about your prototypes "style" was, well, nothing but a wisecrack. On that note, I'll look for a little King Kong figure. It would look really good hanging from the top of the stepped anvil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbruce Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 On that note, I'll look for a little King Kong figure. It would look really good hanging from the top of the stepped anvil. On that note, there's not too many ''art deco'' icons as bold as the Empire State Building.......''Wisecrack'' seems a little harsh, It was all in fun...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonjic Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 The self contained aint gonna win any beauty contests but its obviously just evolved into what it is, cant hold that against it! I like the look of the utility hammers, timeless and functional - much better in grey than red ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Larson Posted September 11, 2012 Author Share Posted September 11, 2012 Of course it was in fun. I like the king cong idea. I've added several pictures of the old 150 pound utility hammer that I just rebuilt. The octagonal hammer head is 9" across the facets and has a 7.5" inside diameter on top with a solid bottom. This hammer was built originally a few months after the self-contained and had a cabinet enclosing the hammerhead. I kept that but modified it to now have V-guides instead of keys-in-keyways. I also added the stroke adjustment lever and other current pneumatic features. This was the last machine to use a 24" tower and for many years I used a 12" tower.The cabinet on this machine is 18" with 12" from the die center to the tower's front. Back to the original bling comment by Danger. I have thought occasionaly about how really cool it would be to use polished stainless steel cladding plates. I've had numerous suggestions to use cast bronze name plates such as the old machine tools used. I used to leave every bolt head in its yellow zinc color to accentuate the illusion of rivets. On most of my hammers I use an aerofoil shaped lifting eye on top in the context of art deco steamlining. However, literally nothing beats the huffa-huffa sound of a self-contained. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Sculpture Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I'm kinda glad I got beat up over that comment, hammers are for hammering... DUH :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryce Masuk Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 All hammers turn black if you use them more than you polish them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Low-Alloy Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 The early 20th century Massey hammers had really simple valving as in head slapping simple. Think two 1/4 turn ball valves with check valves and that 's the control valves. The Massey had more complex spool valves to do the same thing but I like the KISS method. I'll dig around in my saved files for the patent, it tells all with print drawings. As I recall it was a 1906 Massey patent but I could be wrong on the date, darned TREE. Frosty the Lucky. Frosty, is the patent number 707,246 by HAROLD F. MASSEY? Google patent seach: < http://www.google.com/patents/US707246?pg=PA9&dq=Massey+hammer&hl=en&sa=X&ei=875XUNzIAs3aigKd-oGQBA&ved=0CDQQ6wEwAQ#v=onepage&q=Massey%20hammer&f=false > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Larson Posted September 30, 2012 Author Share Posted September 30, 2012 Today I created a storage spot for the self-contained, to hold it until my time frees up. In its spot, by the coaql forge, I put the 150 that I brought up to current standards. That frees up a spot near the front door that is sorely needed for parking a couple of tool boxes. I've been rebuilding the front end of the shop to accomodate my new associate who is launching a steel fab operation. I'm helping him with space and machinery. He has a heckofa telephone bookdeveloped at his previous employer and is starting to get orders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZIG Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 Thanks for all the time to post pics. Love it. Some great ideas from those. Appreciate it alot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Larson Posted October 2, 2012 Author Share Posted October 2, 2012 Thanks. That others can learn a bit and hopefully be inspired drives me, I guess. Power hammer research takes an enormous amount of time and money, so that I can reduce those for others makes sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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