Josh D Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I'm just getting interested in metal working. I have done a decent amount of woodworking. I have a project in mind that i would like to make a set of tools out of stainless steel. Tools shown here I hope i did that link correctly. Basically, they are ~ 3/16" thick stainless steel tools that are beveled at a 45 degree angle. All the surfaces are rounded over. They are used for rehabbing muscle tendons and ligaments. I have an idea that would be along the same lines but not duplicating what was pictured (if the link worked). Would anyone here be interested in helping a newbie learning metalworking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 How much experience do you have tooling and metal working in general ? working with Stainless is not usual the place to begin with metal work, But welcome to I Forge Iron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh D Posted February 10, 2009 Author Share Posted February 10, 2009 I would say my experience is zero. i had a little in high school but that was nothing. I thought working with flat metal would keep the learning curve to a tolerable level. For the project i thought i would need to be able to grind a rectangular blank of metal into a rounded off end. with my woodworking i have made/sharpened lathe tools and plane irons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
element Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 They are used for rehabbing muscle tendons and ligaments? Do you mean for injuries on the human body? I could of used some of those on a few occasions . Your pictures are to small to see, for me anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I am not trying to discourage you. not at all. I can not see the pictures either they are way too small. but welcome and many of us will do what we can to help you get started safely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Welcome to the cutting edge crowd, glad to have you. If you can, a larger picture will let us see what you're thinking of. If you're used to sharpening and dressing your wood working tools this project shouldn't be out of your skill set. Heat treating will be another matter all together though, especially if you're thinking of making real surgical instruments, you'll need surgical steel. In that case you'll probably want to send them out to the heat treater. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh D Posted February 11, 2009 Author Share Posted February 11, 2009 element, yes on humans. Look up Graston technique. It is definately not pleasurable but with injuries you develop scar tissue that can cross link between the different muscle fibers or other tissues which then limit their function and weaken them. The tools help break up these erroneous linkages and then you can rehab the body to work better. if you want to talk about it further i'm more than willing. steve sells, sorry about the pictures i will try to link to some better ones. I'm not confident in using the messaging boards as this is different setup than i use on the woodnet wwforum. I also didn't take you as discouraging. frosty, these tools are used outside the skin. As far as strength of steel i would need. i'm not sure. The force used on the tool is enough that it can break minor blood vessels over the tissues you are working. now, for the pictures.Copyrighted photo removed, use this link Also, here's a link that tells a little more about these tools and has a picture of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quenchcrack Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Low carbon stainless, like 304L or similar, would not be difficult to work but I would suggest you gain some experience with mild steel. It can be forged and ground and polished to look as shiney as SS for a lot less effort and cost. Carbon steel can be kept rust free with a little oil or wax once in a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 The link told me all I need to know, the Youtube video was most informative. In my non-professional opinion strength isn't going to be an issue, you couldn't put enough force on the instrument to damage it. Making a set would require either models to copy or an intimate knowledge and understanding of the technique to make your own versions. The required skills would include cutting, grinding and polishing with a little bending. Heat treating won't come into it as these aren't cutting tools. What you'll need for material is an approved grade of SS but this is a non-issue as it's commonly available online if not in your home town. Just find out what's acceptable and buy what you need. I'd practice on something easily carved and inexpensive till I had the shapes fine tuned. Even something like white pine or maybe boxwood would be strong enough to try out on someone to see if your mods work for you. If you don't have the equipment yourself you could enroll in a college extension metal shop course and use their equipment. Lots of guys around here do that, it's far more sensible than spending several thousand $ for something you'll use occasionally. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh D Posted February 11, 2009 Author Share Posted February 11, 2009 I really want to let you guys know i appreciate the advice. i have ordered from mcmaster.com before. is there any other sites i should look at? Did i mention my father teaches in the industrial department of a community college. What tools wood i be looking at using. I'm sure he'll be able to have one his friends help me learn to use them safely. i'm guessing i need a metal cutting bandsaw to cut the edge at the 45 degree bevel and a grinder to rough out the initial rounded edges. Is there an ossicilating spindle sander type tool in metalworking that i can use to round inside curves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
element Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 O my, its the first time i see it in black and white! But over the years some parts of the body just got stiff ( Hehe not what you think) And doing those messages is the only way i could return to normal and alot of times more than once is nessesary. Im going to forge me some graston tools;) Jtd1, Il do some research for a few days and il get back to you through PM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 You're very welcome, we love making this stuff up for the unsuspecting. A bandsaw to profile and belt grinder/sander to contour, make the bevels and polish. The final polish would need a buffer. A wheel grinder might make some of the concave sections easier. It's a really short list, if you lived close I'd be happy to let you use my stuff and show you how. Heck, you could do it with hack saw, files and sandpaper if you wanted to. It'd take a while but it's perfectly doable. This is pretty much a 1st. semester metal shop project, just show your Father, I'm sure he can line you out. heck, it'll probably make him happy as can be to have you in the shop with him. It's hard to beat shop time for quality time. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh D Posted February 11, 2009 Author Share Posted February 11, 2009 i know my dad would get me setup. I have done some work with him at school before and it made him have that goofy smile all day.. He's in the hydraulics and pneumatics but he has free reign on using any tools.. is there a difference between woodworking belt and disc sanders and metalworking? Possibly speed the same as metal bandsaw are slower?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I don't see why you can't use your oscillating sander and other sanders from woodworking on your metal projects. Sanders are pretty much sanders. A decent set of files will allow you to round and finish edges in a safer and more controlled manner, although slower, than using power tools. It is hard to give advice as it is not clear *exactly* what you will be using them for and who will be using them. If I read your question correctly, you will be using them for a "similar" but not identical chiropractic treatment. I am not an expert, but it seems unlikely that you have insurance which will cover the manufacture of these instruments. On a separate but related note, if you are a Chiropractor, will your insurance cover the use or claimed damages from instruments that you have made yourself? I don't mean to be a wet blanket, but you know how some people are.I really want to let you guys know i appreciate the advice. i have ordered from mcmaster.com before. is there any other sites i should look at? Did i mention my father teaches in the industrial department of a community college. What tools wood i be looking at using. I'm sure he'll be able to have one his friends help me learn to use them safely. i'm guessing i need a metal cutting bandsaw to cut the edge at the 45 degree bevel and a grinder to rough out the initial rounded edges. Is there an ossicilating spindle sander type tool in metalworking that i can use to round inside curves? Your project does not seem that complicated. Most of your items look as if they could be made simply using a set of sharp files (half-round, and flat), and maybe a bench grinder if you are in a hurry. Don't forget safety gear, really good goggles, full-face mask, ear protectors, gloves, and respirator are good for protecting your eyes, ears, and lungs from dust, noise, and flying metal. Visits to the eyedoctor and/or the emergency room are not fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh D Posted February 11, 2009 Author Share Posted February 11, 2009 unicorn~ thanks for the information. These would be a personal set that i would make to try to improve on previous designs and incorporate some new curves and whatnot that would engage areas such as wrists and feet that the current graston doesn't cover as well as i'd like. as far as insurance coverage, i could be possibly held liable. i'm sure my malpractice doesn't cover this. My goal would be to develop something that i could patent or sell to either a graston or starr tool for a portion of profits. Also, i am trying to start working on some race animals so that the standard sizes used by graston would not apply to the size of a horse. Could i get some suggestions on types of SS that would be good for my purposes. one guy suggested 304 steel. I have been reading on mcmaster.com about the different SS. There is way more variations than in woodworking. I priced out 304 and a 1" x 3/16" x 36" is around 14 dollars. Figuring that the average tool is 6-8 inches. that would give me 4 or more attemps. What other sites do you guys use? id like to try and order this week and maybe experiment this weekend thanks fellas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Your efforts and goals sound very commendable. I don't tend to use stainless steel because I have not had a need for stainless. For tools I use tool-steel, and for about everything else I use mild-steel. One place to look for stainless steel is: Admiral Steel another place is the search utility at: [ABANA] The Suppliers Search Mild-steel has a reputation for being easier to file, grind and sand than stainless, but again, I have not had the need to work with stainless. If you are proto-typing and need to make different versions, you might want to make your proto-types from mild-steel as it is easier to shape and costs much less. The only advantage that I can see from stainless is that the final product would likely to need to be made from stainless to sell to your target market of medical people. But if you are in the proto-type stage using mild steel for your experiments are likely to save you money, lots of grinding and shaping time, and your sanity. If you are near a blacksmith, someone with a forge that can hot shape iron, he/she could hot shape either create rough pieces for you to finish, or create and finish the exact shape(s) based on full-size drawings. He/she could even rough out a bunch of each basic shape in mild-steel for you to adjust with files in experiments with the final shape and finish. Thus you can save time and focus on your experiments rather than painstakingly making each variation from start to finish yourself. There are lots of options. While the finished product will likely need to be marketed as being made with stainless-steel, I really don't think that your first proto-types need to be made in stainless. But I could be wrong, and gasp, sometimes am wrong. But we will just keep that between the two of us. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh D Posted February 11, 2009 Author Share Posted February 11, 2009 It seems like i have a never ending list of questions.. what would be a couple decent metals i could use that: wouldn't rust or oxidize excessively? wouldnt leave stains or marks on skin? is there a way to treat mild steel so that it doesn't leave that metal residue on your hands. I will be using these fairly often on skin on skin so i'd prefer not to have to scrub my hands every ten minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 The most durable finish of mild steel that I can think of is power-coating. Some smiths take their stuff to be powdercoated if they can justify the cost. The easiest, cheapest and fastest way is to wipe the metal with a 3M pad from your local hardware store, to get the loose oxidation off, then to apply a couple of light coats of Krylon clear acrylic from your local Walmart. It dries quickly, does not tend to smell, and can be reapplied if and when it starts wearing off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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