George N. M. Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 Here is an article about a find of a Roman Era hoard of iron objects in Poland. https://www.thehistoryblog.com/archives/69305#comments "By hammer and hand all arts do stand." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 It's a wonder everybody doesn't find artefacts every time they disturb the ground! I sure hope they don't "conserve" those by washing and brushing the rust off! Do you know if anybody is using electrolysis on iron artefacts? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 I think the larger and more "reputable" institutions know about electrolysis of the conservation of ferric objects but some of the smaller places and archaeological officers may not be as well informed. I have a good friend who has a MS in Museum Management and a PhD in History and I will ask him about it the next time we talk. I'll let you know if he has anything interesting/war stories to tell. GNM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott NC Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 Do they ever do follow ups on this blog of the results of conservation efforts on some of these finds? I don't follow it as closely as I would like. I think it would be interesting to know what the percentage of people that actually report finds like this is. Or just dig it up and stash it away. Others may just not realize what they have found and use it for bank line weights or door stops. Maybe it's an old worn out question but it's something I have wondered about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 I have no doubt there are many artefacts in private hands and trashed as junk from farm fields and gardens. In fact a good place to hunt fossils is in stone walls surrounding farm fields in fossil rich places. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted January 27 Author Share Posted January 27 Scott, from what I have observed over the years on The History Blog is there only occasionally any follow up regarding conservation. Sometimes when there is an announced conservation effort on a well known painting or a mosaic there will be a later follow up showing the before and after versions. I think Livius, the lady who runs the History Blog, gets her material from internet press releases from museums, archeology authorities, the general and specialized media, etc. and repackages them for posting on her blog. So, if there is a special find there may or may not be another one after conservation. I have seen conservation posts on jewelry, paintings, mosaics, and a few other things but very rarely on iron objects. Most resposible museums know their limits on conservation and will only estend the process to significant artifacts, particularly those that are intended for display or detailed study. Otherwise, the artifact is stabilized, if necessary, and filed into the collections. Some of this is due to the conservative attitude of "do no harm" to the artifact and in hope that there may be a better way to deal with conservation and restoration in the future. And, yes, there are lots of folk out there who find something and do not recognize its significance and discard it or just set it in the corner or on the mantel as an interesting souvenir or try to "restore" it themselves, e.g. removing rust with a wire wheel. GNM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 There's that and archeologists and paleontologists tend to be very possessive about everything, some almost hating private collectors. Dr. John Horner spoke at an exhibition of the T Rex reconstruction Sue. It was that reconstruction's last exhibition after which it was destroyed rather than allow a private citizen buy and display it. Don't even ask! The response from the museum curator and exhibit "boss?" was almost violently adamant. Dr. Horner got upset when asked questions about what to do if someone found a fossil, care, storage, etc. I understand the academic's desire to prevent damage by amateurs, for profit diggers, etc. but their response to questions drives folk who do find artefacts and fossils into keeping quiet about it. So academia has zero chance to study finds. It's crazy but I understand both sides of the argument. Greed vs. academia has created a pretty hostile environment for the casual collector. And NO, do not even TRY to tell me the fossil leaves, fronds, sticks and very rare insect in the local decommissioned open pit coal mines are too precious for a lay person to touch. I've actually been TOLD I should leave them in-situ and let the pros, locate, recover, preserve, conserve and archive them. In a mountain range some 400 miles long, 200 wide and +4,00' to - 10,000' average of mostly coal and I'm destroying valuable evidence by digging coal for my forge and maybe taking a couple of millions of leaf fossils in an abandoned open pit mine. No kidding chewed out but it was a student bent on saving the planet. Sorry to get off on a rant but holy mackerel a little common sense goes a long way. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted January 27 Author Share Posted January 27 Horner is kind of an odd duck in the paleontolgy community. He has done some great stuff and has helped popularize the science but in many ways he is more than a half bubble off plumb. If you ask 5 paleontologists about him you will get about 12 opinions. And there is a reason that he is not affiliated with any university. He would be awful in a classroom. GNM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 Yeah, his early history with academia was pretty harsh, even after earning a PHD he wasn't recognized as a legitimate paleontologist by the community. I had a bunch of articles and papers written by paleos, it was a real passion of mind till I got married. It was really hard to figure out if he is so off because of his treatment or his treatment is because he's so off. I've gotten some pretty nasty responses to questions from experts that didn't follow lockstep with what they believed. Do NOT sound like you're challenging them, they bite! Just asking something like, "But what about this?" can get you yelled at. It's crazy. Made me glad I didn't go far in college, I would've been taking classes from the like. Do you remember the screams of outrage in print, when Robert Bakker described Velociraptor as the road runner from hell? Worse when he described T. Rex as a slow moving scavenger? Talking to geologists is soooooo much easier. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott NC Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 Thanks. The reason I asked about conservation results is I was reading this. It's not iron but brass, and the parts layed around in storage for a long time. https://www.heritagedaily.com/2024/01/roman-arm-guard-reconstructed/150315 I notice they don't show the fully restored piece. Maybe a teaser to get people to visit the National Museum of Scotland.... 20 hours ago, Frosty said: In fact a good place to hunt fossils is in stone walls surrounding farm fields in fossil rich places That is a good idea, I will keep in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 Ayup, a teaser it is. Notice the first thing they "offer" is a subscription and the chance to donate for the cause? It really gripes me to see ads like that instead of a meaty article but there's a reason that arm guard sat in storage for a century before being conserved and "restored," it's expensive work, you have to have people who actually know what they're doing and it takes lots of time. Museums are expensive places to operate so I can't begrudge them for trying to elicit donations. Thanks for the link Scott, I'll have to check out more. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott NC Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 Quite honestly I never clicked on that news letter button, but I just did and it is a bit deceptive. I guess I just look at the articles on websites. Also, I wasn't trying to take a shot at the museum, by my comment. More of an observation. I get tangled up with my words a lot. That's why I am starting to use emojicons again. In this digital day and age we are lucky to have museums and libraries as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 The join/donate ad came up when I clicked the link. I didn't think you were taking a shot at the museum or magazine, just making the same observation I've been seeing since I was a kid reading issues of my Grandmother's life subscription to National Geographic. Bids for subscriptions and donations were a stock item when the cover was plain brown and have you looked at a Nat Geo Mag. recently? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott NC Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 No, but I was given a gift subscription to The Smithsonian magazine and now I will know where to buy a hearing aid when I need one. Or a "Beautiful" stone necklace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goods Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 I found this interesting today: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2024/jan/28/high-end-iron-age-smithy-oxfordshire-blacksmith?fbclid=IwAR2vZFxoR5qXRUp3gzDtOuGPRK5nHS_xGJsPUXT1zPsY6E6Lta3Mykcc7mU_aem_Ac58rbjHUOwDirFI1yahvImYDN9xYi4w75wxmzBbHMu8yrEMFBXIIZj8OVoGAP8krUo I do question there thoughts on the need for a large forge. I personally believe someone in the material chain would need a large forge to work blooms down into wrought iron, and this early in the time line I would think they were doing that at this location. What are your thoughts? Keep it fun, David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted January 29 Author Share Posted January 29 David, you may be correct, however, I think the consolidation of blooms into wrought iron bars would have been done at or near the point of production rather than transporting the raw blooms to a smithy for processing. It would be interesting to know if there were production operations in the area. Thanks for posting the link. George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 I think the bloom would've been worked to muck bar at the bloomery at least. I don't know if it'd be economical to turn it into 2nd, 3rd or fine wrought at the bloomery but there were a lot of iron works so I imagine there were ore in one door, fine wrought shapes out the other. Frosty the Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goods Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 I know they didn’t mention a bloomery in the article, and it’s possible that the wrought iron was imported. I just thought that at such an early time period a large forge like this would also be producing its own wrought iron, especially considering that the northern part Oxfordshire had a principal iron ore deposit. (Of course, if the find was in southern Oxfordshire, it would be easier to transport iron than the quantity of ore needed to produce it.) I’m obviously not an archaeologist or a historian, nor have I had any other information on this find. It’s just my amateurish thoughts. Keep it fun, David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Unless I misread it, the article says the site is in southern Oxfordshire. The below paragraph is from the article. The excavation was conducted by DigVentures, an archaeology social enterprise, while investigating the area downslope from the iron age hillfort at Wittenham Clumps, a South Oxfordshire landmark. In 2021, the team found an extended iron age settlement, with the remains of roundhouses dating from 400-100BC. Frosty the Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goods Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Frosty, I need to improve my word choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Don't we all. At least I could remember to send the reply I wrote a couple days ago. <sigh> Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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