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Hard Copper "Alloy"


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Hello everyone, I was perusing through the Chemical Formulary Volume 2 for some insperation and I came across a interesting composition that I can't seem to wrap my head around. It claims to be super hard alloy of copper and copper sulphate that is hard and durable enough to replace steel in some applications.

The composition is:

- 1 lb Copper

- 2 oz Copper Sulphate

- 2 oz salt

- 2 oz Borax

Copper is made into spall pieces, placed into a crucible and heated, when at melting tempurature the salt, copper sulphate and borax is added.

 

Does anyone understand the chemistry behind this so called alloy?

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Jack, what is the copyright date of the Chemical Formulary, Vol 2?  If this is an older work I would take these kind of claims with a grain of salt (pun intended).  Like the internet today there is a lot of questionable claims in some older books.  I'm no chemist or metallurgist but I am skeptical.  If it was a truly revolutionary copper alloy it would probably be in common use and knowledge.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

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Thanks Scott, that looks like the formula. I was wondering, copper sulfate is a salt isn't it? 

Copper has been used as a bearing for centuries, maybe millennia just like babbit. Hard isn't much of a factor, it's the oil that matters.

I have to agree with George, claims of amazingness were common in the day. Reading old patents can be entertaining if you can get past the 19th century lay person's use of "legalese," then again that's often the entertaining part.

Frosty The Lucky.

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  I thought you were asking about the "salt" ingredient.  Yes, copper sulfate is a salt.  Evidently, borax is a form of it too.

"Borax is a salt (ionic compound), a hydrated borate of sodium, with chemical formula Na 2H 20B 4O 17 often written Na 2B 4O 7·10H2O. It is a colorless crystalline solid, that dissolves in water to make a basic solution."

  So you have copper, salt, salt and salt.  :).   I'm no chemist either though. 

  Some patent verbage makes you wonder.  But it is interesting to read the wilder ones.

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I was. I'm a long way from a chemist but it read like copper, salt, salt, salt to me too and one was undefined and I was wondering if he meant "table salt" salt. Maybe it was another kind of salt a . . . secret :ph34r: ingredient. 

Frosty The Lucky.

 

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  Mayby he took out that patent knowing it was malarky.   He then waited for all his competitors to go broke finding a similar but better formula that actually worked.  Mayby he owned a copper mine or two.

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On 1/3/2023 at 10:40 PM, George N. M. said:

Jack, what is the copyright date of the Chemical Formulary, Vol 2?  If this is an older work I would take these kind of claims with a grain of salt (pun intended).  Like the internet today there is a lot of questionable claims in some older books.  I'm no chemist or metallurgist but I am skeptical.  If it was a truly revolutionary copper alloy it would probably be in common use and knowledge.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

Hello, if memory serves it was either late 1930s or early 1940s

On 1/4/2023 at 10:38 AM, Scott NC said:

  Mayby he took out that patent knowing it was malarky.   He then waited for all his competitors to go broke finding a similar but better formula that actually worked.  Mayby he owned a copper mine or two.

Or a salt and borax mine

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   I don't advocate alloy experimentation by hobbiests.  I had close friend get badly damaged by doing so.  And he was bright, intelligent and safety savy.  I regret joking around a bit on this thread.

On 1/4/2023 at 12:40 AM, Scott NC said:

A lot of these old processes and techniques can be quite dangerous.

 

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