Upgrading Power in shop

[ede]

My shop (approximately 23'x43)'only has a 20 amp circuit currently.  I'm looking for suggestions on how to go about upgrading the power in there.  I spoke with an electrician and he can either use the current 3/4 conduit buried underground and run either a

60-70 AMP service to and install a panel inside

or dig up and replace larger conduit and upgrade size for 100 amp service with a panel inside the shop for considerably more money. 

He wanted me to figure out

a) My power requirements

1. I have a very old large Canedy Otto camel back drill press (I have to look for the tag on the motor-it's currently at a friends garage.  It has a very large motor to turn flat belts.  I'm guessing it's probably at least 1 HP single phase). 
2. I'm looking to get a 100 lb Little Giant power hammer, which I understand runs best with 5HP motor so I'll probably need a 220 outlet here.  
3. My blower is about 3.1Amp 60HZ with over 500CFM, probably overkill for a single forge but it works well and what I got. 
4. Would like to upgrade the lights to LED, the Shop is only 20'x40'.  I want task lighting and general lighting.  
5. I have an industrial Belt grinder that is 3 phase.  It is currently 460 Volts, 2.8 Amps running a 2 HP motor.  From My research I have two choices, 1. A rotary converter and 2. A VFD Kbac 27d if 1.5-2hp 
6. I would like either a horizontal band saw or power hack saw
7. Radiant Heaters for winter
8. My welder is a Miller 211 that can be used with:

• 230 V, 25 A, 60 Hz, Single-Phase (I would prefer to utilize 230 V)
• 120 V, 20 A, 60 Hz, Single-Phase

Granted I won't be running everything all at once so I'm thinking the 60-70 amp service would be okay.  

Adding more tools down the road? Anything I am missing?  Not really interested in adding a hydraulic forging press.  

b) a map of the openings (where I want the outlets)

1. Any suggestions for layout or any additional advice?  

Thanks in advance

 

 

[ThomasPowers]

Plan for the future; I don't have nearly that amount of stuff and the local CoOp says I have to put in 200 amp service.

[ac160]

ede, if you can budget for it go with the 100 amp service.  As Thomas Powers said plan for the future.  Not knowing your circumstances you might have a second person working in the shop as well sometime and need the extra.  I know most welders I have dealt with require a 50 amp circuit when on 230V.    Do you want an air compressor in your shop? 

Also, it will be a good selling point if you ever decide to sell.

[SinDoc]

Unless you really, and I mean REALLY cheap out on the panel, a common 12-20 circuit panel are normally rated for up to 125 amps. There are exceptions, but that is the norm. In regards to what you should run, that would depend on a variety of things. Running a whole new services from the power company would be expensive. They might not even agree to do it. That would be you are restricted to what your house panel can handle. Most modern homes are 200 amp (once again, there are exceptions). The biggest breaker would can fit in a typical house panel is 125 amp (without getting into specialty stuff). Depending on the panel brand, a 125A breaker "shouldn't" run you more than US$150.

Personally, I would set a 42 space main lug panel (depending on distance from feed source and your local codes regarding disconnect distance) and run 125A to it from your house panel. Depending on your local codes, you use something along the lines of URD to run out to the new panel. The wire is direct burial rated, but I would still sleeve it in conduit. Please note that typical code does NOT allow URD to entire a building. You would have to come out of your house using via something like THHN to a junction box, splice on the URD, run to outside the shop and into another box and splice back to THHN before going into the shop and to the panel. All in all, it is an easy process, but if you have no experience with running electric, I would STRONGLY recommend you hire an electrician to do it. Remember, it only takes one wrong connection or nick to electrocute someone or burn down your home.

For the phase converter, check out Ronk. They make various versions/models and are normally decent to work with. Remember, the converter HAS to be larger than what you are trying to power. A 15HP converter will NOT power a 15HP motor. This is due to the in-rush of motors during start up. If you only have the one piece of 480V equipment, look into converting it to single phase. Might honestly be cheaper.

For lighting, how high are the ceilings? I could give you a couple different options, but would need to know the ceiling height.

All in all, don't skimp out. The price difference from amperage tier to amperage tier is minor (before wire is considered). You can always oversize the wire and change the panels/breakers out later if you need more power but changing the wire is the hardest and most labor intensive part.

[ThomasPowers]

Is your shop attached to you house or in an out building?  Mine is 50+ feet away from the house and I'm having a secondary line run from the buried primary near the road 91' to my shop with the transformer out near the street.  I hope to go LED myself which is a pity as I have 4 8' fluorescent fixtures hanging in the rafters already waiting.  (I'll see if CL will allow them to help out on the cost of LEDs).

My electrician says he will run steel conduit along the top of the wall in my shop with drops to 110 and 220 plugs near the truss support uprights. I'm going to use "weather tight" covers to help keep dust out of the outlets.  Unfortunately my electrician wouldn't trade for an arm and a leg though.

[SinDoc]

I rambled there. Sorry about that. 

TLDR

You have a large enough space, equipment and potential future equipment that not doing at least 125A would be a bad choice IMHO. You wouldnt save much doing lower (ask your electrician if he would run copper or aluminum) as the main cost apart from labor is the wire. I ran 3 2/0 (pronounced two ought) and a ground to my shop and its only 10x20.

Thomas, have you looked into simply converting those fixtures? You could get a kit that would convert those to (4) 4 foot lamps and then just use LED tubes. That would be fairly inexpensive but at the same time fixtuees themselves have gotten so cheap. I snagged 4 6000 lumen strip lights from Rural King the other day for 20 bucks each.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

5 hours ago, SinDoc said:

All in all, don't skimp out.

That is the best advice. If I knew then what I know now.

When I built my garage, I only thought I would need a 60 amp panel, then I had to upgrade to 100 amps and now have a 200 amp panel. If I would have put in a 200 amp panel in the first place I would have saved a ton of money. You don't have to have all the circuit breaker slots filled and with the larger panel adding more circuits is a breeze.

[jlpservicesinc]

Going with the largest you can afford and then some..    Sadly with the price of copper right now, copper wire is sky high.  

I ran 100amp sub to the old shop and was able to run a 40HP RPC, and any equipment in there which included a 3613 DoAll bandsaw 2HP, drills, grinders, 13" metal lathe, 500amp 3PH Mig welder,  350 amp Miller dynasty 350.  All the bells and whistles..  

I oversized the wire from the house to the panel for better flow and less heat running alum wire. 

the new shop on the other hand is 400amps and priced accordingly.    

200amps to setup is still pretty reasonable as it's the standard today. 

[SinDoc]

If money is really tight, depending on what your local code allows you could run aluminum for your feeder to the shop. Would be a lot cheaper per foot than copper. The URD I mentioned is aluminum and is the quote unquote standard underground feeder out here for residential applications. You would still run copper in the building to the outlets and such.

Depending on the walls and your shops enviroment and of course your local code (that pesky code), you could potentially run MC (metal clad/armored cable) in the building itself. Its more expensive than typical romex but less expensive than running single strand wire through conduit.