Donal Harris Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 I have tried searching but no luck. I know from my search that when using wrought iron or mild steel on the outside carbon will migrate from the high carbon core to the areas of lower carbon. 1095 seemed to be the most commonly used core, but other than the high carbon content and the material being readily available at a very low cost in the form of old files, I couldn’t find much to inform me why it might be preferred over something like 5160. l have many old files to play around with as well as several leaf springs from some sort of large Ford truck and a small pile of leaf springs from small utility trailers (small as in like what you would use to haul a golf cart). I also have 4 or 5 used coil springs from some unknown vehicle types. I know from past reading it is best to use known steels, and used springs could have stress fracture, but I have them and am not selling knives. Something which behaves like 1095 or 5160 for my purposes now is just as good as known 1095 or 5160. Does 1095 tend to crack or warp during heat treatment more or less than 5160? Is one easier to forge weld to WI more than the other. Is there a table which shows which cores are best suited for use with WI or other different types of steel? Thank you, Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 assuming equal parts of steels like 1/2 inch steel in middle and 1/4 inch on the sides in the mix, and a perfect world, 5160 - 60 WI = 10 60 +10 = 7/2 = 35 points of carbon, which is barely hardenable due to carbon migration. 95 +10 = 105/2 = 52.5 points of carbon, a much better content now its not a perfect world and you will lose carbon to the air while forging, so your final numbers will be lower, its your call Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goods Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 Don, one thing to keep in mind is carbon migration. The the carbon from the 1095 will migrate into wrought iron and you will loose some of the benefits of it. You won’t have that problem with 5160, the chrome and manganese can mitigate easily at all. On the other hand, 5160 can be harder to get a good forge weld, due to the chrome. Personally, I had a lot of weld issues making hawks with 5160 bit, then switched to 1095 and my problems were gone and I don’t really need a really are but for a hawk. (Of course if your using files the carbon content if probably closer to 1.2%) Just my limited experience, hopefully Steve will jump in to give advice for an experts standpoint. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 You passeed me while posting, and 5160 does have migration problems, I think you have typos there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goods Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 Steve, looks like we were posting at the same time. One question, with alloys like 5160 how much of the hardness is from the chrome and manganese? (I do have some 5140. I could do some testing with, but right now I’m stuck. Burn ban went into effect yesterday, and my forge is outside. Working on getting a new garage/forge built...but that’s a story for another day.) David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 there is no hardness from the little Mn in there (and its about the same amount as in the 1095) and Chrome effects how it hardens, not how hard it gets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goods Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 Thanks Steve, that makes a lot of sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donal Harris Posted October 18, 2020 Author Share Posted October 18, 2020 Thanks to both of you. it only just now occurs to me you may have covered this in your book, Steve. I will pull them out again. When I bought them I didn’t think I would ever be trying this and would have just skimmed over it if it were there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 There are ways to block carbon migration but we are talking stuff that's a bit above beginner's level. 5160 can be harder to forge weld than a straight steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goods Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 Now that’s go me curious? Not beginners material, but is it safe enough for you to describe here? I’d love to hear about it. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 nothing dangerous about using pure nickel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 The basic method is to weld a layer of a carbon migration barrier between the HC and LC; pure nickel is one I I know of; some of the stainless will work too but the flux to weld them with is quite toxic if you breathe the fumes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goods Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 I know a blade smith who uses pure nickel for contrast (shiny) layers, but I had never thought about it stopping carbon migration. Thanks! David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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