Fresh build. Troubleshooting questions

[Marshall_Forge]

Hi everyone. First post, and a humbling one at that. Just getting into the craft, so knowledge is just based off days on end of research. Not much hands on experience. Please bear with me..

Just finished a forge build a few days ago. It's running, but definitely needs some tweaking. Setup is as follows...

-Dual venturi burners. 7/8" ID × 9" pipe with 3" adjustable flared nozzle. .023 mig tip jet. 60psi HPR. Ran off single 20lb propane tank. Running at around 5psi. 

- 20lb propane tank body, 2 layers of 1" inswool>> kastolite>> mizzou>>itc100. Interior volume roughly 432in^3. 

Currently having issues with the burners when they get up to temp. Pretty much smooth sailing up until then. Flames seem neutral, small amount of dragons breath, slight blue/yellow hue to it. They are doing a type of whistling/chirping noise like a...turbulent chirping? 

Are they just not getting enough air flow? My burner tubes are getting quite hot. Maybe my burners are too far into the forge and causing ignition inside the tube? Nozzle to far in or out? 

So many variables...so much research..Bueller? Any help is appreciated. 

Trying to upload more pics. Having issues...

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Welcome aboard Marshall, I sure the forge/burner gurus will be along shortly with advice. In the mean time I always suggest reading this to get the best out of the forum  READ THIS FIRST   It will help you in getting the best out of the forum with tips like editing your profile to show your location because so many answers depend on knowing where in the world you are located. Other tips like resizing pictures and some to help in staying off the moderators radar.

[Marshall_Forge]

Thank you! Will do. 

[Frosty]

Welcome aboard Marshall, glad to have you. If you put your general location in the header you'll find out how many members live within visiting distance. 

And so you did, this happens when more than one person are replying to a message at the same time. 

A pic of the burners themselves will be helpful. I'm not clear what you mean by ( 1 7/8" ID x 9" ) You surely didn't use pipe nearly 2" ID  to make a burner did you?  That would be so far out of range as to be a weed burner . . . maybe.

For purposes of discussion till it's clarified I'll assume you have a 7/8" ID mixing tube. Just so we have something to talk about. Is that a standard pipe size or as measured? If as measured then it's probably 3/4" x 9" plumbing pipe? 

If so, it's too long. The ratio is mixing tube length = to 8 x diameter. 8 x .75 = 6"

Just using the plumbing pipe rated diameter works well enough in a home built burner. 

What is the air intake? What are it's dimensions?

The sound you're hearing is PROBABLY the flame burning back into the mixing tube in short term flash fires. I'd guess at a reason but I don't like doing that without a few more particulars.

If you have trouble uploading pictures try reducing the file size I have good luck under 300kb. OR it could just be the gremlins messing with Iforge's data transfer speed right now. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Marshall_Forge]

Thank you Frosty. Went ahead and included location in profile. Im in Stowe,VT. Mitigated picture issue by reducing file size. Worked like a charm. 

Haha. CORRECT. 7/8" ID..as measured. My mistake. Heres a link to the burners i purchased for details. 

 

 

Front opening is 6.25" but fire bricks provide adjustments. Ive been fiddling with the openings on both ends. Seems to run great with an inch slit in the back and maybe 4-6in^2 opening in front. Until high temps of course. 

Which leads me to a question of, is that 8" length supposed to be measured from jet tip to end of tube? If so, it does look like it would be at 8" according to sellers pics. 

Im running it typically with choke at halfway or fully open. 900ft altitude. Part of me is thinking im just not running at high enough psi? Could i just not be forcing enough volume of air/fuel through with it being NA? 

[Frosty]

I'm not familiar with the maker but it's a variation of a Mikey burner. I'd have to fiddle with it to tune or decide if I needed to change something. It's against site rules to post links to commercial sites so don't be surprised when this link disappears and you get a notice with a brief explanation. Don't take it personally, it's not.

How about a still pic of it burning in the forge, say one in the cold forge and one when it starts sputtering. 

Next time it starts sputtering try moving the choke a LITTLE at a time and give it a little time to settle down between adjustments. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Binesman]

Ive purchased from this maker before.  They are good burners.  However they have an issue below 8 to 9 psi withback burning.  Thats what you are getting.  Simply turn up your regulator a little.

[Marshall_Forge]

Hear ya on the link. Duely noted. I will do some more tweaking tomorrow and return with comparison pics if problem persists. xxxxx I'll probably just post pics anyways to confirm that what i claim "looks right" is actually right. 

Awesome. I will take that into account and try it out. Thank you for the info. 

Edited April 19, 2020 by Mod30
Language

[Chris C]

Marshal, I know other forums are lax on policing foul language, but I'll warn you before a moderator hits you with a penalty.  Watch you language.  The moderators are FAR from lax here on IFI.  Just sayin'.

[Frosty]

Good catch Chris, I missed it or would've included language. The goal of Glenn is to have a site you can let your 5 yro daughter spend all day surfing around without ever having to explain something adult. 

Don't let the penalty point thing tick you off. The mods can't gig a post for language, etc. without it being included, it's an OS thing not IFI's doings. Steve would write something more direct and sensible IF kind of . . . direct. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

With the forum running so slow lately, I'm sure moderation is running a little behind. Now that the forum is back to normal, so will the moderators.

[Marshall_Forge]

Not a problem fellas. Thanks for the heads up. Ill keep it kosher. 

As for the build...she is purring! Throwin smooth heat like a regular Randy Johnson. I ended up extending the nozzle out a bit more, pulled the burners back out of the forge a good inch or so and no more backlighting, pressure, turbulent chirping issues. Running smooth at 5-8psi (Apologies for the terminology) Having pulled the burner back further im now getting some red glow around those burner tube holders where they meet the forge body, but thats about it. Will have to figure out some insulation for that area i guess. 

Thank you everyone for the quick replies and guidance. Happy to be here and now, happy to have a fully functional forge. 

Pictures are in order of start up flame, about a minute or so in and afterglow of shutdown 

[Mikey98118]

Your burners have a multitude of problems, and your best bet would be to return these Frankenstein Specials for your money back; failing this you need to:

(1) Use a square file to get rid of the round ends of the air slots; then use a needle file to angle the forward and rear ends of the rectangular shaped air openings to parallel knife edges, with the sharp edge on the outside of their forward ends, and the insides of their rear ends.

(2) Lengthen each pipe so that there is 8" between length between the forward end of its air openings and the edge of the pipe.

(3) length of their gas orifice (correct MIG contact tips) may be sufficient, depending on the internal diameter of the gas passages in the rest of the gas parts.

(4) Build or buy acceptable flame retention nozzles to replace the present ones on those burners. You can buy flame retention nozzles that will work properly (good enough for lazy people) from Larry Zoeller Forge, for a small price.

Sorry for the bad news, but happy talk isn't going to help,

The designer of the correct version.