Grinder Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 Hi Brothers: I've been having a few problems with my forge and tried some advice from this site to no avail. Wanted to tune my burners a little but when I try to turn up the pressure, it snufs the flame out. My 80 lb. tank is almost empty now and I know its a old tank that sat for several years. I was thinking of running a natural gas line to my shop instead of using propane. I haven' t heard much about natural gas forges so not sure if it will solve any of the problems or just create more. Whats your opinion on the switch. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another FrankenBurner Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 Are you wanting to use natural gas instead of propane? If so, it is doable. You would have to know your natural gas pressure which is usually very low. My house is 7" WC which is 0.25 PSI. This is completely different then high pressure propane. I would advise looking into natural gas burners. They are usually the gun/blown type as the lower pressure means lower velocity which makes it harder to induce enough air. As Mikey stated, it's not more/less difficult, just different. It ties you to power unless you are running something off of batteries but hard fuel lines are usually in the same area as power. It is not portable if that is important. Some have said that it is more dangerous because if the power goes out, the fan will turn off but the fuel will continue. You could install a solenoid valve in the gas line which would eliminate this possibility. The upside, no running out of fuel half way into a project. If you go to a ribbon burner, more even heat, though it is not a requirement. Some places do offer high pressure natural gas. Usually industrially. Worth a check. That would change things. There are naturally aspirated low pressure natural gas burners out there commercially. They are much more critical in their design and are usually large in size. I don't recall any that I have seen homebrew over the years. There might be some out there. If the idea of natural gas is only to fix the improperly running forge and you are not opposed to propane, you can most likely get your current setup to run better. We would need more details on your current setup to advise. Some pictures of the flames, the burners and the forge would help greatly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 Most places I have lived I could buy a dozen+ commercial propane forges for the cost of getting a high pressure gas line to the forge. When I was in middle school we used a natural gas forge made by Johnson; it worked well and used a powered blower and a "control box" to do the setting and mixing. They still make them for schools with flame detectors connected to automatic shut offs; however I have owned cheaper pickups! If you re having trouble with your propane burners; buying a (Known good) commercially sold propane burner would be much simpler, cheaper and easier. BTW what type of burner do you have and at what pressure were you running it? What type of regulator do you have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 the problem doesn't even have to be the burners. If the forge wasn't designed to handle the output of the burners, that can choke them off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grinder Posted December 28, 2018 Author Share Posted December 28, 2018 Hi Guys: Thanks for the replies. Good information. I just thought it would be cheaper to run natural gas than propane. My problem is when I try to open the ball valve more after the forge is running, the added pressure will snuff out the flame. Maybe its because I'am a rookie, and am not supposed to open it fully. Not sure. The tank 80 lb. is old and the propane is several years old too. I'll post a few pics so you can see what I have now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 Is the ball valve the only way you have of controlling the pressure? If so you need to put a regulator & pressure gauge at the tank. As far as the propane in the tank being several years old it won't affect it at all. When we built our forge the 115 lb tank we had was 20 years old with propane in it. Our supplier advised the propane would be fine because it never goes bad. Without a regulator the pressure when you open the ball valve would be in the neighborhood of 145psi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 What he said! Hie thee to a 0-30 psi PROPANE regulator! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another FrankenBurner Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 What is the volume of that forge? Seems pretty big. How much insulation is on the walls? What are the size of those burners? Is that first image a different forge then the last two? Either way, that first image shows burners which are too far into the forge. The burners should not stick into the forge at all, otherwise you risk over heating the ends of the them. If you do not have a regulator at the tank, this is the first thing to change, before changing anything with the burners. Propane tank pressures into the burners could easily be a big problem with how these burners run. If there are still problems with the burners after getting a regulator, then go back to my reply to these flames in burners 101 on page 53: Mikey has explained how to help burners like this. Don't change anything with burners until you have done the regulator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grinder Posted December 31, 2018 Author Share Posted December 31, 2018 The forge is 18" deep, the width is 10" and the kayo wool is 2.5 " thick. I do have a regulator but no pressure gauge yet. I have played with the regulator to try and adjust the flame but was only able to slow it down. In all the pictures, its the same forge. The burner pipe is 3/4" to a 3/4 x1.5 " reducer end. I tried the adjust the burners up and down to see if it would make a difference but it didn't do very much. The only success I had was leaving the front and back doors open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 The only function of a pressure gauge gives to a forge is repeatability; most of us don't use them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grinder Posted January 1, 2019 Author Share Posted January 1, 2019 I' am realizing now from the responses that there is a lot of pressure in the tank that has to be controlled. I was figuring that I needed to tune the burner to make all that pressure into a stronger flame and heat up the material that much faster. I guess it is what it is. Thanks for all the help. Getting a better grasp on how its supposed to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 The regulators I have that don't have gauges; I tune the burners by eye and ear: Neutral burn is hottest---shown by flame impingement colour on the refractory and loudest. I can tune the burner by adding more air or more gas as needed to get that and will often then choke it a bit as I often do knives and want a reducing atmosphere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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