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Ok, here I am just restarting in my smithing and I have been asked to make a few Roman Spears. It doesn't look all that hard in shape and such but since I have never done anything simular I thought I would ask for some suggestions. Here is the picture that the guy has sent me. I have thought about using some old mower blades for the stock?
The bottom of the spear is wrapped around to allow for the wood handle to insert.

Suggestions, recommendations, considerations and any other tions you can think of will be much appreciated.

James

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Edited by ironrosefarms
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I followed a link I missed the first time I scanned through a earlier spear thread... and found a much better picture that shows me some good detail of the making of the socket in how it transitions from blade to socket.

Still wouldn't mind input however. One challenge I can see is I do not own a mandril... Yet
James

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Edited by ironrosefarms
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I would stick to mild steel for reproductions - no need to fight the higher carbon in a mower blade (unless that's all you have for stock). On the other hand, you could roll the width of the blade into the spear socket, then weld the rest together for the blade.

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Steve that is an awesome offer, not sure how to work that out with my work schedule right now... and I leave for my first week of Boy Scout summer camp in just two weeks, I am playing the roll of Comissioner (sounds important huh!) However I have scheduled two trips to Hartford City later part of July to take my kids to Church camp, I'll check the dates and see if we can get together...

I was digging around my scrap pile earlier and found some mild steel that should fit the bill. The reason I thought about using the mower blades is I have an abundance of them, There is a guy who runs a mowing service and replaces his blades on his 10 mowers 2 times per season and he gives them to me free, since I haven't used any in the past 2 years, I have several. Maybe after I knock out a few in mild I'll make a few out of high carbon for my own play time?

I have been thinking about how to obtain the shape going from the point to the socket, here is two rough drawings I have put together, I am wondering which of the two are most accurate>?

The red line being an approximate for the point to begin the fold to create the socket. The guy does not want the socket welded but just a close seam simular to the second one I pictured above. Thanks for the help, suggestions and gracious offers!

James

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Roman spears tended to have split sockets. Being very pragmatic in military matters weapons tended to be produced as cheaply as possible while retaining quality. Bruce Blackstone has a tutorial on spearheads over on Anvilfire that may help. As soon as I snag someone to do pictures while I forge I'm putting together a BP for this site.
Finnr

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They had a thing on TV a year or two ago, I'm pretty sure it was about the Romans fighting the Celts. I don't know where this guy got his information, but he made a big deal about how the Roman spears were used to disable the shields. The spear head, including the socket was supposed to be about 3' long or some such gigantus dimension, so that a thrown spear would stick into the shield. Then the defender would have to put down his shield to remove the spear (or discard the shield) since the length of the spear head put the handle far enough out that it was not convient for the defender to chop it off with his sword or ax.

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That's about the long and the short of it John. It's a specific type of thrown spear called a pilum; a weapon unique to Legionnaries (the main division of the Roman Army). The long head had an added advantage in that, the long, skinny part being only 1/4", it bent easily. Therefore chuck it once, it bends and it won't fly straight if it's cucked back at you. Post battle, it can be cold forged back straight. Each Legionary carried 2-3 into battle, and the first order of battle was to launch them all at the enemy ranks while they were a ways off; it removes their shields, thins their numbers and disrupts any formation they may have.

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I believe I saw the same program, a PBS series called Battlefield Britain. Father and son team, Peter and Dan Snow. I seem to remember Peter and Dan demonstrating the pilum(crossbow) that shot bolts (spears) very accurately at plywood targets from some distance, and explained how the soldier carrying the shield was effectively taken out of battle, leaving a hole in the ranks that could then be exploited.

On edit: Matt87 correctly identified the weapon as a pilum, not a ballista, a siege weapon.

Edited by nett
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When the gentleman asked for me to make the spear heads I started doing some research on the spears as well. The Pilum gets a lot of discussion because it is fairly unique compared to other spears used by historic armies. However what I found was depending on the assignment of a roman soldier would determine the type of spear they would use. From my reading it would seem the style pictured above is more what would be expected of those Roman soldiers who would be in villages or cities to control the many sects of the society of that time. This spear type worked well against the occasional uprising of citizens carrying agricultural implements and such. The Pilum was a weapon used in battle against other armies that would have been armored. Another thing I learned was the thought process in the weight of the spear as well as the shape. Even the Pilums came in a heavy weight and light weight variety. The light weight would be chucked first in a charge as the Roman soldier could make it go farther, then as they got closer they would then chuck the heavier version which was more apt to do more damage. Once the 2 or 3 Pilums had been thrown out came the sword.

Another interesting fact is after a battle if a group of soldiers was determined to have been cowardly they would divide them into ten groups. They would choose by lots and the loosing group would then be killed by the other nine groups. If I remember right this is where we get the term DECImate deci being 10 or a tenth...

History is so cool when it is more than a place and date in a book...

Edited by ironrosefarms
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  • 11 months later...

All you say there, ironrosefarms, is pretty close. The weighted pila had what we think to be a lead ball just behind the metal rod tip, which could make them weigh three or four pounds (some had two weights!). Imagine a 4 lb thrown spear hitting you on about a 1mm square point. Lots of energy focus, that.

The spear points you started the thread with would be used mostly by Auxillia, not so much by the legionaries. Auxillia being non-citizens until late in the Empire, the government didn't want to give them the most effective throwing spears...for obvious reasons. Most cultures in that day fought with spears or spears and shields, so the training curve was flatter. There were probably 20 kinds of designs for Roman spear points (hasta was a fighting or sometimes a throwing spear from 5 to 7 ft long overall; lancea was a longer-shafted cavalry spear, or lance). Javelins other than pila (plural of pilum) just looked like shorter spears, with various designs.

There. Free, unsolicited history lessons. For some good pictures of all sorts of Roman equipment, go here:
Legio XX--The Twentieth Legion

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