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Anvil face brazing


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i hope this is not a repeat, i think i sall something about this once but for the life of me cant find it. but has anyone attempted forge brazing a steel face to a ASO/cheep cast iron anvil, is this even feasible or would the soft brass under the face just start to break away soon. like many people i have a cheepy anvil that im tempted to play with. i have a few real anvils so its not really out of need, and if i destroy the cast one i dont care, but im tempted to try this, any ideas for this. its a small londen pattern anvil, maybe 60 lbs.

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I've talked about it several times and intend to give it a try when more pressing things are taken care of.

I spent 20 years as a driller taking soils samples for bridges, foundations, etc. Many of our drill bits have carbide teeth and they are brazed or silver soldered on.

The amount of hammering inflicted on the teeth by a drill rig as it chews it's way through glacial till or frozen soils makes what you or I can do by hand insignificant. A brazed or silver soldered join will hold for generations of human powered forging.

I was given a brand new ASO a few years ago and have salvaged a couple pieces of grader blade from the old job.

My plan was to cut the cast face down so the 1" grader edge would braze on at the same level. This would make a step to the horn.

The next step and probably most time consuming is to grind the two to match. The closer the pieces being joined match the less braze or silver solder necessary and the stronger the joint.

Once they are matched I'll build a steel stand to hold the face and anvil upside down. This will put the weight of the body into making the join. The stand will hold it 12-16" off the ground and I'll surround it all with a 55gl. drum, sans ends. I'll put clipped pieces of brazing or silver solder rod between face and body as I put them in the stand.

I'll probably do it down the hill at Jake's pit where there's a large, several acre pond to quench it. I'll use a 2" trash pump to supply water to the face in a vertical deluge for quenching. The stand will serve to keep the face in place when we flip it over for the quench.

I'll let the residual heat from the body draw the temper once the face is quenched.

And, That's MY plan.

Frosty

Edited by Frosty
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i understand that you would want the steel face and anvil face to lay very flat, but do you want it polished smooth, or would it hold better if it was ruffed up with a very cores grinding stone? i would also continue the steel face to cover the step and the horn

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The closer the contact the better, if you could polish at an atomic level it'd better. Don't get crazy though, 80-100 grit should be more than good enough for this.

Roughing the surfaces means the pieces will be held farther away by the rough surfaces which will take more braze or silver solder to fill.

The thinner the braze the stronger the joint.

Shape doesn't matter as long as there're good clean well matched surfaces to braze to.

Frosty

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What adhesive did they use on the space shuttle tiles?


My mom's second husband used to weld the tiles onto the shuttles. I remember him saying he and the other welders would leave their initials welded onto the tiles too.

Hopefully that wasn't why the Columbia blew up!
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if you are really gonna try the brazing thing, you would do well to tin both surfaces first. tin the plate first then the ASO position the plate and use a rose bud to heat the plate, when you get to the right temp the plate will suck down on the ASO.

Edited by irnsrgn
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how do you tin things, guessing its close to brazing but have never used tin, is it just a rod that you can get pre fluxed dose it need flux?

If i dont braze a steel face on then im just going to take it and try and electro plate the entire thing in copper and just set it outside my forge to look nice, not like cast iron is any good for much more, and it would go well with the name of my forge, "Copper Anvil Forge"

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In this case tinning means coating both faces with the joining metal, braze or silver solder in this instance.

I've considered tinning but also think it may mean a much thicker layer of braze than desirable.

This isn't going to be a case where it'll be difficult to get the filler to flow to all surfaces as in a pipe joint. It would also mean bringing both pieces to brazing heat and either letting them both cool back down or handling both at heat.

I've never tried this so my opinion is based on speculation and reading. I'm going to try it my way first but am keeping an open mind all round in case.

I'd sure appreciate a report from anyone else who tries it.

Frosty

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The grader edge I have is Vascowear. I know from experience and reading the data sheets it isn't air hardening steel. It's primary characteristic is abrasion resistance with extremely high impact strength.

To grind it you need to bring it to red heat and use a cup stone. We've torch cut it, preheated it to weld and in an unsuccessful attempt heated it to yellow to try straightening a bent piece. After letting it air cool it showed no sign of hardening.

There's a good chance I don't need to quench the stuff at all and will experiment before trying it on an anvil face.

I can't speak for other grader edge steel, only the stuff I have.

Frosty

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My mom's second husband used to weld the tiles onto the shuttles. I remember him saying he and the other welders would leave their initials welded onto the tiles too.


-What and what?

First off, the tiles are ceramic. They're adhered to the shuttle body, not welded. That was the early issue with the shuttle tiles- the tiles held up, but the adhesive used to hold them into place, broke down and allowed the tile to fall off.

Second, even if welding was involved, there's absolutely no way anyone would be allowed to get away with something as frivolous as welding their initials into a part or bead.

Now, I can see an individual weldor being required to stamp on or near a weld, to mark who did it and when, but even that's pretty questionable, as the stamping itself can create a stress riser. Perhaps an engraving method of some sort...

But no, the tiles aren't welded on, and weldors don't leave their intials- at least not in weld bead like backyard hacks do when they make a snowplow or something...

Doc.
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The clinic is at Pat Garley's shop in Palmer, starts at 9:00 $50 Jim will be demonstrating animal heads starting with a dragon.

The Iron pour is at the Museum of Transportation and Industry in Wasilla, by the airport, June 28th.

It's the middle of a set of three pours and part of the Art on Fire show here.

The first pour is June 21 at Wiseman, above the arctic circle. The third will be in Kenai on July 4th.

The Association will be putting on demos at the 28th. event and I'll be bringing my fire suit so I can get close to the cupola.

I'm thinking of making a firepot pattern as something simple enough for my level of rust for the pour. I haven't made a mold since high school so something easy to pull will be a good idea I think.

Post me on the side if you want a map, directions, phone #s, etc.

Frosty

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No way I'll be able to make the Saturday thing. That's four and a half hours from here, and I have two new machines to install in the shop tomorrow. :D

I'll certainly keep the 28th in mind, but you can just about guarantee I'll be there for the 4th. That going to be at Scott Hamann's place? I think he just got in a power hammer, didn't he?

Doc.

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I believe it is at Scotts. I don't know if he got any new toys but suspect he did as Pat's getting his old one.

You should at least subscribe to the association yahoogroup, we've been talking about both events since January.

Frosty

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