Tom Lumpkins Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 Hi I am new to the site and trying to learn to make knifes, I saw a video on YouTube and did a little surfing on the web, and have made several blades the first one I made is so hard and brittle that you can't get a edge on it, It won't get sharp. from what I understand you heat the blade up till its red hot then let it cool, Then after it cools you cut and shape the blade the way you want it. then heat it and quench the blade. to harden it , and I think your supposed to heat it again But not sure why you would heat it again. I sure would be grateful if some of you all would let me pick your brain and help me with the procedures for making a knife . I'm a OTR Truck driver and don't have a whole lot of time off, But would love to make a few knifes and also want to make stuff outta metal, I just built me a forge and got a Anvil last weekend . For about the last five years fishing has been my favorite thing to do when I was off, and don't get me wrong I still like to get out there on the Cumberland River and do battle with a big Catfish, But life is short and I ain't getting no younger and if I'm ever going to learn anything about making knifes and stuff outta metal I got to get at it. You all have a good evening...Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 The first time you heat and quench, It hardens the steel. As you have found, this is too hard and now needs to be tempered. This is a process of re heating without quenching to soften it just a little so its not brittle, but tough. Entire books are devoted to this subject and I'm sure others that know more about it than I do will give their input, but check out the Blueprint pages also. I know there is at least one BP on heat treating. The main thing is that heat treating is usually not just one step. First you harden, then you temper. Hope this helps :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Kelley Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 Tom, Here's a web site with plenty of information to get you started on making some knives. Spend a few evenings reading through some of the tutorials and then go beat on some steel. Information on making knives Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Lumpkins Posted May 4, 2008 Author Share Posted May 4, 2008 Thanks Ken, I went to the site and The info is there and I plan to spend alot of time in there getting educated... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Lumpkins Posted May 4, 2008 Author Share Posted May 4, 2008 The first time you heat and quench, It hardens the steel. As you have found, this is too hard and now needs to be tempered. This is a process of re heating without quenching to soften it just a little so its not brittle, but tough. Entire books are devoted to this subject and I'm sure others that know more about it than I do will give their input, but check out the Blueprint pages also. I know there is at least one BP on heat treating. The main thing is that heat treating is usually not just one step. First you harden, then you temper. Hope this helps Thanks for your quick response, I've got a whole lot to learn . LOL .... Have yourself a great day...Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdCaffreyMS Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 Hi Tom! Welcome tot he wonderful world of Bladesmithing! I won't go into what the other folks have already covered, but I will say that its always a learning experience. I've been at it for 25 years, and every day I walk through the shop door, I learn something new. I suppose thats why I've always remained excited about it. Working with carbon/alloy steels is a totally different animal if you've never done it. Each type has its own set of temp ranges for forging, and all the other steps involved. Its just a lot of fun. You should join in with us on Friday evenings at 10pm EST for the knife chat. Just go to the upper right hand corner of the forums page and click on "Chat", then type in a user name and your password. There are all levels of experience, and everyone is welcome to discuss knives and knifemaking. We generally go for about an hour, or until the conversation dies down. Its a great place to learn and interact with other makers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Lumpkins Posted May 11, 2008 Author Share Posted May 11, 2008 thanks for the info on the chat, I wished I had seen this post last nite, I would have dropped in, With my job its hard to plan anything, But I'll try and make it one nite, Maybe next friday. Have a good one..Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratel10mm Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 Hopefully without upsetting or denigrating anyone here, I strongly suggest you visit Don Fogg's forums Don Fogg Custom Knives and also British Blades British Blades. Both places have a huge amount of info & help available for people new to the subject. And Ed is one of the world's leading knife makers, so listen to anything he has to say on the subject! ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Lumpkins Posted May 16, 2008 Author Share Posted May 16, 2008 Thanks for the good advice, I plan on being in the chat room tomorrow nite, If I don't mess around and forget it. And when I get a chance, I'll check out those sites you mentioned, Thanks again..Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azmike Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 Tom, welcome. you will find that the knifemaking community (here and other sites) is top shelf. hope to "see" you for the friday nite chat -- azmike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Lumpkins Posted May 17, 2008 Author Share Posted May 17, 2008 Last night during the chat, I asked about using scrape metal and was advised to go out and purchase metal to make my knife with, I am new to this and don't know much about metal, I down loaded some pages off a site someone refered on here and It Say's ** Carbon © is the basic element that gives tool steels there hardness and lets us do the heat treating, It is Essential in low alloy tool steels, Needs to be 0.60 percent (or 60 points) and higher. At the high end of the percentage range, Up to 1.00 percent,Plus ( 100 plus points of Carbon) it adds considerably to the wear resistance, It is the element that makes the important blacksmith tool steel W1 what it is..** boy's I want to buy some steel and I don't know nothing about buying steel, I want to buy enough to make about 10 to fifteen blades. And I need to know what to ask for and if you have a idea of the cost, That would also help, Thanks in advance for your Help..Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan B Posted May 17, 2008 Share Posted May 17, 2008 Just starting out, I would try some 1095, (.95 points of carbon), or O-1 tool steel. These 2 steels are very forgiving on the hardening and tempering and if you make a mistake you can reheat to critical temp and try again. The 1095 is a spring steel and readily available through most steel suppliers. If you have a local machine or welding shop. Go by and introduce yourself and explain what you are trying to do. Most of them will let you piggy back some steel on one of their orders for a minimal fee. They may even have some scrap tool or spring steel for you to practice with. I started out using scrap to learn how to heat treat and temper and then went to buying new steel to make blades for selling. Hope this helps. Alan B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Lumpkins Posted May 17, 2008 Author Share Posted May 17, 2008 Thanks Alan, I got some scrap that I have been playing with today, And it seems to be working pretty good. This friend of mine from Louisiana gave me a couple big saw blades and I fiqured since I dont have any good steel that I would put it to use, I took a bunch of picture's and plan to post them on here some where..Thanks again...Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted May 17, 2008 Share Posted May 17, 2008 The manipulation of metals into a knife shape is not something that just comes natural to anyone. You would be well off to spend a year or so shapeing metal and learning how it acts under a hammer. Mild steel will be fine for this. I would strongly suggest you go to the front page and get into the getting started pages and walk into this a little at a time. Youi may also want to visit other makers and just look around their shops and see what they use and what they use them equipment for. You do not need a lot of equipment to learn to forge. Knife steels are not cheap and to begin with pricey materials is , to me anyway, a bery large step to begin with. If there are gun or knife shows in your area, go to them and seek out the makers..tell them your plans and see what happens. Not unusual to get a shop invitation. HAve fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Lumpkins Posted May 17, 2008 Author Share Posted May 17, 2008 I will take your advice and I appreciate it. I made a knife today, and a friend give me a couple of coil springs and I heated one and straightened it, Then cut off a piece and put the Anvil to use and beat on it a little while,Then My tongs that I made broke, Now I got to go in the Blue print area and try my luck at building a good pair of tongs, I threw these together and they didn't last long, I was having trouble with them bending when I was using them and knew that I was going to have to make another pair. You mentioned a shop invitation, About ten year or so ago, { Can't remember when} I went to a old thresser show in Adams,Tn , There was a guy that was sit up in this old cabin and he was doing blacksmith work, Well I had him make me a gaff for my cat fishing, And we took a liking to each other and he told me they meant there the last Sunday of every month and invited me to join them, I drive big Trucks for a living and don't have a whole lot of time off, so I never took him up on the offer,But come the last Sunday of this month I'm going to try my best to be there, I hope the old feller is still at it. And I hope the invite is still there.I don't know anybody else around here that plays with steel. have a good one..Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azmike Posted May 17, 2008 Share Posted May 17, 2008 Tom, glad to see your stepping up and forging ahead---old coil springs should work fine, but if it were me i would uncoil them full length and work one end and use the other to hold on to (i have as yet to make a "good" pair of tongs)---there is something about them (and me) that just doesn't come together quite right as yet---take care --azmike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucegodlesky Posted May 17, 2008 Share Posted May 17, 2008 You are on the right track, Tom. Just get out there and pound steel and get an idea of what it does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Lumpkins Posted May 18, 2008 Author Share Posted May 18, 2008 Boys I'll post this last post, then I think I'm going to watch Tv then go hug the pillow, I just got off the phone with Glenn, he shared a bunch of good tips and tricks with me, "Thanks Glenn" I played with the fire and steel all day. and made another knife, its rough,But hopefully my brother in Law will put her to good use, when I get it done. Member Profile - Blacksmith Photo Gallery My passion for the last seven or eight years has been chasing Big Old Bluecatfish. But I have been interested in playing with metal ever since I meant the old timer at the tresher's show. I can see where this can turn into a addiction real quick. LOL I want to thank all of you all, for your help, I guess we all have to learn to walk before we can run, And I am just a crawling. ...Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Lumpkins Posted May 18, 2008 Author Share Posted May 18, 2008 Well today, I think I will mount the anvil , Then widen the whole on my forge so I can get more air. I'm hoping to find me some coal this week, I got a report from another truck driver that there's a bunch on the side of the interstate from a wreak, in Kentucky and If I get up that way, I'm going to take my old Army tuffle bag and load it up.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Lumpkins Posted May 24, 2008 Author Share Posted May 24, 2008 Well I am home and fixen to fire it up in just a few minutes. Going to attempt to make a couple pairs of tongs. I got 3/8s hot rod, to use, I was going to get some 1/4 X 3/4 Flat bar, But they wanted $ 64.00 for 20 ft of it. And I fiqured I could make um alot cheaper outta the 3/8s Rod. I probably should have forked up the sixty four. But I'm still learning. I went up the interstate into the Area where the coal was supposed to be, But didn't find any. I'm going to head to Adams Tn, tomorrow and see if the feller is still working there and if so, I hope the apprenticship offer is still there. He invited me about eight to ten year ok and the offer may not be still standing, Well I missed friday nite chat, I was coming back from Mexia,Tx and was perty darn tired and pulled over and got some much needed sleep. Didn't get much of that last week, Truck broke down in Texarkana and they got me outta the shop at o130 in the morning then drove on into Dallas, then drove down and picked up the load in Mexia for the house. got here this morning and my big ol butt is still dragging...I'll let you all know how the tongs turned out and may stop in the chat room tonite and shoot the bull....Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Lumpkins Posted May 25, 2008 Author Share Posted May 25, 2008 Well I reckon I learned me a lesson today. I should have spent the extra money and bought the 1/4 X 3/4 flat bar. That 3/8s rod just ain't big enough to make good sturdy tong's out of... Got to get me some more coal , I ran completly out ..well you all have a good one..Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nett Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 Can't help with the coal, but if you upset the 3/8 rod two inches back, or so, you could beef it up enough to make a decent pair of lightweight tongs, say a pair of double pickup tongs. Why do we call it a pair? Same question with scissors or even a pair of pants, why a pair? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 If you look back into the archives of blueprints and pick a few items to make,,including tongs you can save a lot of guesswork on stock sizes etc. Others have already done the legwork and have shared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Lumpkins Posted May 25, 2008 Author Share Posted May 25, 2008 Thanks for the advice, I wished I could get into the Blueprint section, But it won't let me in there. I reckon I'll use wood today I thought of another way to make them work, I got plenty of 3/8s to play with. We'll see what today brings..Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Lumpkins Posted May 25, 2008 Author Share Posted May 25, 2008 Can't help with the coal, but if you upset the 3/8 rod two inches back, or so, you could beef it up enough to make a decent pair of lightweight tongs, say a pair of double pickup tongs. Why do we call it a pair? Same question with scissors or even a pair of pants, why a pair? Thanks Nett, I was kinda thinking on the same line. Have yourself a good day and get out there and enjoy it..Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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