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I Forge Iron

Ken Kelley

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    Frenchburg, KY
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    Retired USAF

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  1. Mike, Take a look at post #12 on this thread. I provided a list of the dimensions and stock sizes for all the parts. Also posted links to a bunch of pictures on Photobucket. That should be enough to guide you through the build. If you have any questions I'll be happy to answer them as best I can. K
  2. Sorry to be so slow in replying. I haven't checked this forum for a few days. Yes, I think my press would be able to handle a billet that size. I've tried it on a billet that was about 1 & 1/2" thick and it handled it with ease. Even though it is a small package, 20 tons of squoosh power isn't to be sneezed at! The only drawback is the relative slowness of operation compared to its larger cousins. I think I might be able to get a little more ram speed if I hook on a couple of springs to the bottom anvil. Will probably try that when it warms up a bit. K
  3. Ted, The Harbor Freight jack can net you 9 and 3/4" of travel between the ram travel and the screw-in extension so that's the absolute limit between die faces. My upper anvil is adjustable. In the bottom position there's about 3" of distance between the die faces when the jack is screwed down as far as it will go. I can make fine adjustments in height using the extension. Since my billets rarely exceed an inch in thickness that suits my needs just fine. And when I need to square the edges up I've got plenty of room to work. The ideal is to adjust the dies so they barely clear the hot steel so you don't waste heat waiting for the die to make contact and start squooshing steel. There's about 6" between the dies when the anvil is in the upper position. I did that in case I need to press a bearing or bushing in place rather than for squeezing hot steel. Again, I urge folks to consider the limitations of this design and that it's really meant for work more towards the small end of the scale. It does a great job of smashing down reasonably sized billets of pattern welded steel and I've read of at least one guy using his version to break down 7/8" high carbon bar stock. It will work great if you don't expect full sized press performance out of a pint sized package. It is certainly a very useful machine and is a lot of fun to build. Ken
  4. I'll second that. It's hard to find better & more helpful folks than Darren and Kathryn Ellis. They are hard to contact because they are very busy people. While you can sometimes reach them by telephone the best way to get hold of them is by email. They set aside Monday and Tuesday evenings to answer the email they receive. As mentioned before, they buy in bulk and repackage their products to save you money. If you want a fancy package be prepared to pay more. K
  5. You could use a 50 ton jack I suppose if you built the press extra strong. However, I have been informed by people who have 50 ton jacks that the ram speed is too slow to be of much use for forging. If you just wanted to put a big squeeze on something they would probably be fine but not for drawing out billets. This little press is meant for little jobs. If you want 50 tons of pressure I think you would be far better off to build or buy a full sized machine. As for leaving the air on all the time...My compressor isn't big enough to allow that. I would also worry about wear on the air motor. Mine works just fine with the manual valve. If you consider the limitations, this little press is very useful and a lot of fun to build. Not a difficult project at all and not all that expensive if you can scrounge the steel. K
  6. Yeah, I've thought about various ways to use the existing valve and I will probably put together something along that line this winter when the outside work dies down a bit if I can't find a foot valve cheao. Still have to build a stand for it too. Lot's of things to play with during the off season. The 50 ton jack would be fun to play with but would require stronger construction of the press and a bigger compressor to run. Bigger compressors cost more money and you might get to the point that you would be better off to invest the money in a larger hydraulic press or power hammer. This press at its present size fills my needs for the moment so I'm satisfied with it. K
  7. I'll probably go to pins when I get the time to modify the machine. Until then I'll limp along with the socket head screws. If I only tighten the front two on each die they do OK holding them in place. I'll make the switch to pins this winter when I have more time to play in the shop. I made a T-handle out of some drill rod to operate the valve. If you want to get real fancy you can attach a spring return air cylinder to do the job but the T-handle works just fine for me. The jack comes with a 4 ft air hose attached to the air motor equipped with a valve to supply the air to run the jack. T.A. hangs his within easy reach with a piece of bent welding rod. I used a C-clamp to attach mine to the table saw I'm using for a base during my piddling and testing phase. I will build a stand for it when I get the time and make a more permanent arrangement. Some folks route their air hose through a foot valve but the silly things cost a bundle. In the early stages of using this thing I don't see any real advantage to be gained from a foot valve over using the hand valve and T-handle. I can operate the controls one-handed fast enough to take full advantage of a heat. Maybe on down the road if I can find a foot valve for the right price I might invest in one.
  8. I only had to buy the tubing and a little more 1/4" flat bar myself. Everything else was just hanging around the shop waiting to be put to good use...well, except for the jack which I found on sale at the Harbor Freight store in Lexington. It didn't take too long to build the project as it's a fairly simple assembly. I spent more time lining things up real square and clamping it prior to welding than I did cutting the parts. The combo die is a good idea but it won't work with this press. The work has to be centered over the ram of the jack to avoid tipping and binding of the bottom anvil since it just rides on top of the ram and is a sliding fit between the uprights. Therefore, the separate dies are more or less mandatory. Be generous with the radius of the drawing dies. My first set had a 3/8" radius and wound up acting more like fullering dies than drawing dies. I made another set from 1" stock and rounded the top to a 1" radius and that works much better. And, continuing with the dies...try to come up with a better way of securing them than I did on the first attempt. I used four 10-32 socket head screws to hold the dies in place. I quickly found out that was a mistake. First, the dies are hot as blazes after you work a piece of hot metal so you can't work around them without gloves. Second, it is VERY difficult to manipulate an allen wrench while wearing gloves. Third, the socket heads on the lower die set quickly fill up with scale preventing the allen wrench end from enteriing. Fourth, you can't blow hard enough to clear scale from the socket of a socket head screw. So I am pondering how I'm going to change this. Probably will wind up using two of the 10-32 tapped holes with thumb screws instead of the socket heads. K
  9. The Old Woodworking Machine site is great for info on old tools Old Wood-Working Machines (OWWM) - Welcome I did a search for the companies you mention but didn't turn up anything. However, if you post your question on their forum I'll bet there is someone who can steer you in the right direction. Ken
  10. Yep! This machine will do a bang up jog of welding cable. T.A. Toler, the guy who thought this concept up, made a video of his machine welding up some what looks to be 1" cable. You can find it here on his web site Mini Hydraulic Press Here's a materials list for my version: 1 - 20 ton air over hydraulic jack from Harbor Freight or Northern Tools, about $70 on sale 2 - 24" lengths of 2'x'2"x1/4" wall steel tubing (3/16" wall will also work) 4 - 10" lengths of the 2" tubing for the base 1 - 8"x10" piece of 1/4" plate to reinforce the top of the base 2 - 8" lengths of the 2" tubing for the anvil cores 2 - 12" lengths of 3/8" x 2" hot rolled flat bar for top anvil sides 2 - 12" lengths of 1/4" x 2" hot rolled steel bar for the bottom anvil guides 3 - 8" lengths of 3/8" x 3" hot rolled steel bar for the bottom of the top anvil and the bottom and top of the bottom anvil You'll also need a small amount of 3/4" or 1" stock to make drawing and flattening dies, a foot or two of 1/4" x 2" flat bar for die plates, and something to make the brackets to hold your dies on the anvils. 2 - 4&1/2" x 1/2" grade 8 bolts plus washers and nuts to hold the upper anvil in place (if you want to make an adjustable top anvil) - A couple of pounds of 1/8" 7018 welding rod Rather than lengthy explanations I'll post some pictures I took during construction. They should be sufficient to show you how to make one for yourself. alphairon/Press - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting alphairon/Press drawing dies II - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting alphairon/Press first run - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting
  11. In the picture of the back of the mini press you'll see a silver cylinder attached to the back of the jack. This is an air motor which has a piston that drives the hydraulic fluid. The air motor does the same thing the jack handle does in the manual mode only much quicker and with far less effort than doing it by hand. Harbor Freight and Northern Tools sell the air over hydraulic jacks for about $70 when you catch them on sale. If this one wears out I'll get another one just like it.
  12. Thanks, Larry. The dies are mild steel I had laying around the shop. I will eventually try to track down a little tougher steel for the drawing dies because I think the mild steel will wear rapidly in use. Yes, it can do forging easily and that's why I built the beast. I'm starting to make pattern welded steel and that is impossible for me just using a hammer. The types of dies you can use in the design is limited only by your imagination and the physical size limitations of the machine. The 20 ton jack provides a lot of power. It is certainly not a replacement for a full size hydraulic forging press but it does a heck of a job on this first billet of 1084/15n20 I welded up. I think I could even go larger than the 11 layers I started with. Where's Clifton? I grew up in Monte Vista down in the San Luis Valley. Went to Adams State College in Alamosa and UNC in Greeley. Ken
  13. Sam, I can get 5 or 6 good squeezes in every heat, sometimes more if I'm lucky. I keep the dies adjusted close to the work so I can maximize the "speed of squeeze". I use a 5 hp 26 gallon Sears Craftsman compressor to power the jack. It has an air flow rate of about 5 cfm at 120 psi with this jack. Might be able to get more speed if I had a bigger air compressor. However, it works a xxxx of a lot faster than I do with a 4-pound hammer and the tendonitis in my old feeble shoulder is doing just fine. ken
  14. This is my version of a mini hydraulic forging press first introduced in Don Fogg's Bladesmith Forum by T.A. Toler. T.A. had a wonderful idea and several of us have built various take offs on his original concept. It's motivated by a Harbor Freight 20 ton air over hydraulic jack. Does a bang up job of smashing billets of pattern welded steel, as long as you keep the size within reason. My first effort was an 11 layer billet of 1/8" x 1&1/4" x 5" 1084 and .058 15n20. The machine easily handled the 1+" billet so I could probably get away with 13 or maybe 15 layers. Sure beats swinging a heavy hammer all to pieces!
  15. Here's an example of a KMG type grinder I built a couple of years ago. It's not a difficult build but it helps very much to have access to metal working power equipment. If you have an interest in building a KMG clone I can guide you to full plans and other sites where you can get more information.
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