Hay Budden

[Josh England]

So I have a Hay Budden that I acquired years ago through my father. The only discernible information on the anvil that I can make out are "hay budden", "manufactured", "UK", and "4" 

The 4 is located on the center of the anvil below all of the other stamping. It has seen many years and there are many chisel type marks on the sides of the anvil. 

The only thing that I know about the anvil is that the face is about 4.5 in wide and 18 in long. The horn is about 10 (ish) in long. Tough to measure because a piece is broken off. The face is hard. So hard that my machinist buddy that I took it to, to clean up the face, went through two diamond flywheel bits on his milling machine, before calling me and telling me he was going to start charging me. It's heavy. I'm not wanting to pick it up and put it on a scale, so any feedback would be appreciated. 

Thanks,

Josh

I will submit pictures tomorrow when the light allows

 

Thanks,

Josh

[ThomasPowers]

This may seem harsh; but---Machinists and welders probably have ruined more anvils than any other trades!    In 36 years of smithing I have only seen 3 anvils I would suggest having milled.  I've seen DOZENS ruined by milling. The hardened face of an anvil is limited in depth; so removing *any* of it is throwing away *years* of use life!  You can be a superb machinist or welder and still not know how anvils are made and so what should or should not be done to them. I have a friend who when he was young had his anvil machined, It ended up with the hardened thickness too thin to use and he carried it around for 20 years till we had an anvil repair day where a professional welder, (teaches welding at the University), who is also a great smith, used professional equipment to build back the face---took 5 hours including the preheat and grinding...

Many modern people seem to think that an anvil should have sharp edges; well in a book published 125 years ago it says "is anyone still so ignorant that they think an anvil should have sharp edges? (paraphrased).  Sharp edges often damage work you are trying to do.

Can we see a picture to see if your anvil now requires several hundred dollars of welding to be back to a usable state? (probably not as good as it started though)

I have a 134# HB that was left in an unheated shed for 50 years in a swampy area near a creek in Ohio.  When I got it the face had condensation pitting all over it, all I did was to wire brush the loose rust off and then use it. After a decade of hammering hot iron on it the sweet spot is polished and shiny!

If you give the dimensions of the face and height someone may be able to look it up in an old HB catalog and give more details.

I sure wish you had checked here first before letting someone work on your anvil...You would probably run into one of my posts saying:  "If you feel you need to mill or grind on the face of your anvil do the same to your own face *first*!"

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Welcome to IFI: this catalog will help with the weight.

http://www.iforgeiron.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=29352

Hopefully your "buddy" didn't do too much damage before giving up. Wish you would have checked here before trying to mill the face.

[C-1ToolSteel]

If you give us the serial number, (located on the front foot under the horn) we can give an approximate year it was made which will determine whether or not it has a face plate. Milling a faceplate clean down to the wrought iron body is REALLY BAD, but milling a plateless anvil down just a little is less catastrophic. The more you mill, though, the more heat treated steel will be lost. In other words, Just because it might be high carbon from the waist up doesn't mean it is *hard* from the waist up. I hope she's still alright. 

 

[Kevin Olson]

Milling..I cringe..  Does he know how much was taken off?

[George Geist]

12 hours ago, Josh England said:

 The face is hard. So hard that my machinist buddy that I took it to, to clean up the face, went through two diamond flywheel bits on his milling machine,
 

I think it's stuff like this that keeps the alcoholism rate in this trade very high

George

[ThomasPowers]

Remember too that a dead flat face is not that useful in blacksmithing, a gentle swale is actually better for knifemaking in my opinion as it helps in straightening.

In two of the anvils I have personally seen ruined by milling, the machinists didn't realize that the anvil had been made working it  free hand under a steam hammer so the  top and bottom may NOT be parallel and so they milled *through* the valuable hardened face right in the sweet spot to make it parallel to the low grade wrought iron base.

If you MUST mill the face; place the anvil face down on the mill and mill the BASE parallel to the Face! Then flip it over and just lightly kiss the face with the mill.

You can remove and inch of base with little effect on the usability of the anvil but 1/4" may destroy the face!

Please don't be scared off, this is a pretty common occurrence for people working on the assumptions or bad advise given them before they learn to ask questions first---or: First Do No Harm!

[Josh England]

He was unable to remove anything from the face. Really only the surface rust. I'm working on getting some pictures. I'm having trouble uploading them, but I am working on it. 

Regarding the serial number on the foot, I looked but the entire body is pitted and rusted to where there is almost nothing legible.

Sorry for the delay in my response. I was in the field for the past few days. 

Thanks, 

Josh  

[ThomasPowers]

Thanks for relieving our fears about possible anvil abuse; some of us were getting ready to write to Santa Claus telling him how good you were this year so No Coal For You!

Many anvils do not show serial numbers; many manufacturers didn't use them. In general it is just a method of figuring out dates and so how the anvil is likely made as makers tended to change their process over the decades.