Hand Crank Removal

[keith9]

This is a Canadian Blower and Forge Co. unit.  There is a good bit of play in the drive rod that runs through the center of the blower (B).

 

I started to take it apart and can't easily get the hand crank mount (A) separated from the drive rod (B).  Removal of the set screw reveals no play and the rod appears to be threaded so I didn't want to pry it out from the blower cover.

 

Anyone here know how this is supposed to come apart?

Thanks,

Pete

 

please feel free to correct my terminology, I don't know what this stuff is supposed to be called.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Looks like it may be rusted to the shaft. Try using a good penetrating oil like Kroil and let it soak overnight. Rocking the crank handle will usually break it loose.

[keith9]

yes sir well thank you.  That should just pull straight off once the set screw is removed then eh?  I'll give it a go.

Pete

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Yes it should pull off. If you don't have any good penetrating oil a 50/50 mixture of automatic transmission fluid and acetone is an excellent one. I'm not sure but you may have to remove the crank handle arm from it.

[Tzelik Hammar]

You might check out technicus Joe on YouTube, he has done a lot of videos on restoring old blower's and he might have one for your model.

[ThomasPowers]

make sure the shaft is smooth and not upset on the outboard side.

[keith9]

Thomas, by outboard do you mean then end of the shaft that the blower fans are connected to?  I don't know if the shaft rides on a bearing or what but there's no play on the fan end of the shaft.  turns smooth.  somewhere around the gears there is a bit of play in what I suspect is and old copper bearing but hard telling not knowing isn't it?  Got to get in there.

Irondragon, thanks for confirming that it should back straight off the shaft, i don't want to break this thing in the process of trying to fix it.  I am dropping penetrating fluid down the handle mount set screw hole a few times a day but so far it's glued on there.

Randell, I found Joe and will check it out as time permits.  Thanks.

 

I got looking at this again tonight and it seems there may have once been a set screw to secure the handle to the shaft (see picture).  You can see a number of places on the handle arm where a set screw once pinched.  Maybe the set screw threads stripped and they used a rivet to secure it.  In the process the end of the shaft was mushroomed a bit and now the handle mount won't budge.  You can see a bit of mushrooming in the first picture.  

 

 

I'm going to try grinding the shaft flush to the handle mount and then see if it'll come.  Might have to break the bond with heat as well.  

We will see.

 

 

 

[Frosty]

Slow your roll Keith. Taking a grinder to a piece of machinery you don't understand is NOT a recipe for success! The handle set screw snapped off, you can see the threads in the shaft end fitting. What probably happened is it might have gotten dropped on the screw and snapped it or someone without much mechanic's experience tried to take it apart and used a bigger wrench rather than let oil break the rust. You MIGHT need an easy out to remove the broken set screw but it won't work till the rust is busted. Here's your homework for tonight, Google out how to use an "Easy Out" Or "Screw Extractor" Please link any video you find here. We'll check to make sure it's good info and there are other guys here who can use it. Sound good?

If you try forcing this apart you are going to find yourself buying another blower or having parts made to replace the broken parts. No joke!

That you don't know what Thomas means by "outboard" end is a good example of you not knowing enough about mechanic work to try forcing things. The "Out" board end of anything attached to a machine is the end AWAY from, the machine in relation to the part of the machine you're discussing. For example the rear wheel is on the OUTboard end of the axle while the differential is on the INboard end.  Or the head of a golf club is Outboard and the handle is In board. Make sense? I'm not dissing you, nobody is born knowing this stuff we ALL had to learn I'm offering you the benefits of my mistakes so you don't have to repeat them. Okay?

If the Outboard end of the crank shaft that holds the handle is enlarged on the handle mount then the handle can NOT slip off, it's riveted. Is that more clear?

For now, please stop trying to get it apart and do some prep work on it. Find a steel bucket it will fit into, pour in a couple cans of ATF (Automatic Transmission fluid) and a gallon can of Acetone or MEK, $15.xx in Home Depot Wasilla. Be careful, use neoprene gloves and keep either of these solvents OFF YOUR SKIN! Put a lid on it to prevent rapid evaporation and let the blower soak for a day to two. Kroil is good stuff but there could be 80 years of rust it has to soak through and soften. This is a case where quantity is the quality you want, LOTS of very penetrating oil with powerful rust inhibitors. ATF has the good rust inhibitors and protection, Acetone or MEK (Methyl Ethyl Ketone) are the super penetrants. They penetrate so well they'll go right through your skin, won't even slow down and carry whatever is on your skin with it just like a transdermal nicotine patch you wear to "help" quit smoking. Neoprene gloves YES? For that matter WD-40 is a transdermal you should keep off you, not to mention gasoline! 

Whatever you use you have to give it time to work, there is NOTHING so stuck on your blower you need to start grinding parts off! Honest, I may tell the "occasional" tall tale but I don't lie.

Re reading your original question I see there is play in the blower! Is the impeller fan moving at all? Just bumping a LITTLE bit back and forth when you turn the handle?! 

If so, GENTLY bump the crank back and forth and fire the garden hose in both the center (inlet) port and the outlet ports. Blowers are incredibly irresistibly attractive nest sites for everything from mud daubers to rodents, cats, weasels, extraterrestrials, etc. not to mention kids just can't resist dropping rocks and stuff in them to listen to the fan blades clank and grind. Most times they're just gunked up with: caked oil, dry mud, sticks, weeds, rocks, sand and critter poop. You can probably wash it out with a little patient crank rattling and a garden hose but a you can take a pressure washer to it without hurting it. Honest.

Just don't get all excited as soon as it starts turning, keep washing and tip it at different angles so any rocks, nails, wire, etc that're caught in a nook or cranny can be helped out by Mr. Gravity and Mr. waterhose. 

WEAR PPE! You do NOT want to get smacked in the eye by a pebble driven by a 20,000 psi.+ pressure washer. Heck wear your rain gear.

These things are NOT precision instruments even though they're precisely built, they're designed to be TOUGH and rebuilt with what a guy can come up with or make on the farm. Fixing this kind of stuff IS what made the blacksmith THE necessary craftsman in a town. You can lube one with anything oily or greasy, I use a couple DROPS of 3 in 1 and it hummmms but a couple drops of melted lard will do it fine. 

Remember do NOT get in a rush, try ONE thing at a time and see what happens. Keep us posted, we'll help. Another thought, if you can find a patent # or even a model # on it try googling the patent drawings. Those are a good deep look into machinery. 

Gotta go feed the dogs.

Frosty The Lucky.

 

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Frosty beat me to it and gave much more info than I would have, listen to him.

If you get it cleaned up good you probably won't have to take it apart.

Your Canadian Blower and Forge Co  blower is the same as a Buffalo Forge Co. blower. You will find more info on the Buffalo Forge blower. Here is a little history on them.

http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgindex/detail.aspx?id=150

[swedefiddle]

Good Morning,

Be very careful using an easy-out!!! The easy-out expands the "Bolt" or "Set Screw" and will make it worse or harder to come apart. DO NOT BREAK THE EASY-OUT!!!!!! You can't drill the easy-out to remove it. Learn how to drill a pilot hole (+/-) 1/8" as close to center as you can. Then drill one size smaller than the drill size for tapping the original thread, if you are not on absolute center, you can push the drill sideways to regain center. This will relieve the tension of the bolt or set screw. You can run a tap into the piece and pick-up the original threads, the bolt or set screw will flake apart.

If you get impatient, the machine or implement will talk to you. It will TELL YOU you have done something wrong. It will LAUGH at you!!

Remember, It is an old piece, It was made to last in the worst conditions for a LONG time. Then it got forgotten.

Neil

[Frosty]

Neil is right, Easy Outs can easily to do more harm with than good. I was probably unclear, don't do anything till you've tried washing it out and soaking in a penetrating oil bath! 

There are screw extractors that don't expand the screw as much as an "Easy Out." Rather than trying to drill and chase the threads out as suggested. AFTER penetrating soak buy a left handed drill bit 1/2 the dia of the broken screw. Warm the handle gently, press a piece of rod you've chilled in the freezer on the broken screw. Using the left hand drill bit in running in reverse in the hand drill, drill the center of the screw. If you've busted the rust it'll screw back out. KEEP YOUR FINGERS CROSSED THOUGH!!

Successfully "scalping" a bolt out (drilling JUST enough to clean all of the bolt out but the threads themselves) is NOT a beginner skill. Believe it or not it's WAY easier to do with a cutting torch than a good drill press. A cutting torch is NOT an option in this case if you're wondering. 

Frosty The Lucky.