Brazer Posted September 15, 2016 Share Posted September 15, 2016 Should the air adjustment on a gas burner be behind the gas orifice or in front of the orifice tip for proper air gas mix? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 15, 2016 Share Posted September 15, 2016 Have you looked at plans? A choke, by definition, controls air intake. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFT Posted September 15, 2016 Share Posted September 15, 2016 3 hours ago, Frosty said: Have you looked at plans? A choke, by definition, controls air intake. Frosty The Lucky. I think he means(maybe) choke from the front of mixing tube moving toward the rear as opposed to starting behind gas jet moving towards flare... but plans should have covered that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 If that is what he meant, than the choke should open from the rear side of the mixing tube; at the point closest to the gas jet. This way maximum variance of air flow is achieved. An air choke that opens and closes from its farthest point away from the gas jet has the least variance built in; becoming little more than an open/close switch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFT Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 On Saturday, September 17, 2016 at 2:22 AM, Mikey98118 said: If that is what he meant, than the choke should open from the rear side of the mixing tube; at the point closest to the gas jet. This way maximum variance of air flow is achieved. An air choke that opens and closes from its farthest point away from the gas jet has the least variance built in; becoming little more than an open/close switch. That looks like a quote from burners 101 which i just read yesterday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 5 hours ago, TFT said: That looks like a quote from burners 101 which i just read yesterday Wow, how about THAT!? One of the things that grows the curmudgeon in folk is having to explain the same thing over and over. Expect repeated explanations and crabby old farts. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFT Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 But that was just put up a few days ago? I think... and that maybe was before his question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazer Posted September 18, 2016 Author Share Posted September 18, 2016 Sorry to put a few people out when have a question about burners I never worked on. I have been a plumber for 45+, and all gas appliances are said to have primary air adjustment. I am reluctant to ask any question about anything now. I was always told the dumbest questions are the one's that you never ask. I just wanted some input after reading and looking at a real lot of gas forge plans to help me get better control of burner. Thank you for your time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 I guess we didn't make ourselves understood. We were speculating on just what you'd asked, if you'll clarify we'll be happy to answer as best we can. We aren't talking about all gas appliances, these are home builds. some have chokes others like the I make don't. If you didn't understand Mike's reply try asking a more specific question or responding to our speculations as to what you really wanted to know. We are having to ASSUME you're asking about a naturally aspirated burner. We get a little talkative and often twit each other leavened with a healthy % of bad jokes and puns. If you aren't going to clarify your question you're leaving us to amuse ourselves waiting. Please don't take this wrong but there most certainly are dumb questions best left unasked. Not saying you have a dumb question it just could've been asked more clearly or clarified. So please clarify your question, site the plans you're referring to and we'll do what we can. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oberu Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 Brazier, you aren't alone. This particular forum isn't very user friendly and the few people that are knowledgeable will usually scald you a few times before you get useful info. Keep at it and eventually they'll see you are serious and help. I wish I knew enough to answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFT Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 35 minutes ago, Oberu said: Brazier, you aren't alone. This particular forum isn't very user friendly and the few people that are knowledgeable will usually scald you a few times before you get useful info. Keep at it and eventually they'll see you are serious and help. I wish I knew enough to answer. Read the page 6 (or all) of burners101 itll help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazer Posted September 19, 2016 Author Share Posted September 19, 2016 I understand you all are very knowledgeable about the complete gas forge systems however I asked about the choke adjustment because the burner I got had the choke before the gas orifice. I should have mentioned it is a Goede stainless steel foundry/forge burner,with 30PSI regulator,gauge,130000 BTU When I was setting it up in the vise to adjust burner for best flame, the holes had to be almost completely closed and when I opened more air it goes out. When I adjusted the choke from the front to rear adjustment I got a better flame. It seems there are too many holes before the burner. I read all 6 pages on (Burners 101) and just asked if I got it right. All the burners I have worked on in my years had a belled orifice port installed with the Air adjustment (Choke) in a circular disc to turn to allow adjustment. They all where behind the gas orifice. I know now that I could have made the sucker cheaper and better with what I learned from the forum, but after purchasing it I am trying to use what I have to work with, and if it can't be adjusted good enough, I will follow you advice and make my own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazer Posted September 19, 2016 Author Share Posted September 19, 2016 This is what I mean on burners I am used to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oberu Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 I would advise putting it in your forge as you would run it and adjust it there. From what I've learned you'll be looking for "dragon breath" or fire licking outside the forge to be be blue with orange and yellow flames to be a neutral flame. This will be what you are after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazer Posted September 19, 2016 Author Share Posted September 19, 2016 Thank you for you input Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFT Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 Yea your picture instantly cleared up one thing for me i was totally off and was thinking you had a different style burner... my bad( backs away slowly) But the tuning the burner in the forge is probaly a good idea, as stated above, but than style of choke induces turbulence which isnt optimal, if i have that right But give her a shot, with normal cautions of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 Alright enough information to be able to give you a meaningful answer Brazer. The burner you're used to working with is a linear inducer a commercially made version of what Ron Reil refined for home built forge burners using plumbing parts. The GOEDE you're asking about is a low performance Jet ejector type burner. The staggered round holes are considerably lower performance than longitudinal rectangular slots. Regardless tuning the burner you have is the issue and it's easily tunable. First tune it IN the forge, back pressure effects how they burn so tuning it in the vise isn't applicable to the forge's partially closed environment. Think of it like trying to set a cable throttle in an empty dump truck and expecting it to perform with 20 tons in the box. An extreme analogy but that's the general idea. Put it in your forge, light it and tune by ear and eye. You know what a good burner flame should look like. Right? It will roar like a jet engine and once tuned should be stable from maybe as low as 5psig up to 15-20 psig. Just don't try to tune it by what I say its range should be. There are too many variables effecting things, largely elevation but also relative humidity and temperature. Lower temp and dry air carries more oxy so a burner may run leaner but that's not likely to be noticeable except in extremes. Sitting here I can't tell you where to set the choke other than to say the openings should be above the jet hence the choke sleeve. I think that's what you asked in the OP but not knowing what your burner looks like I couldn't render a useful opinion. I do believe Mike said what I just did and he did it based on your OP. If you have problems please post pics of it running, one straight in the door so I can see what the flame looks like and one across the door so I can see what the exhaust (dragon's breath) looks like so I can see what your fuel air ratio looks like. Give me a shout anytime. Frosty The Lucky. Oberu: People who get "scalded" by the knowledgeable folk here tend to have attitudes that deserve it. If you need help setting me to ignore let me know I'll be happy tell you how. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazer Posted September 19, 2016 Author Share Posted September 19, 2016 You guys aren't as bad as the people I worked with over the years. I don't let any one or anything get to me at 70+ yrs old. I can dish it out too. One thing happens to people who eventually get old. They all forget and like to be reminded of the things that get vague in their brain. I'm one of them. I enjoyed the jabs guys, and still want to be accepted in this group. Just remember, (Never pee in the wind.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 Isn't that don't pee INTO the wind? Know any good oh heck bad jokes? Did you hear the one about the three drunk Olympic swimmers who walked into a. . . .? It's pretty easy to fit in here. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazer Posted September 20, 2016 Author Share Posted September 20, 2016 You are right Frosty, it's into the wind Thanks for making me feel at home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted September 29, 2016 Share Posted September 29, 2016 On a side note: the photo has a choke that seems deliberately designed for maximum interference of air flow; this might have some small utility in a low flowing appliance--I don't believe that for a second--but it would be a bad joke on a forge burner!!! well then, you may ask why would such a STUPID design would be installed on a commercial product? I would answer "why did Detroit ever think tail fins and big chrome bumpers were a slick idea on cars?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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