Laertius Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 Been working on this for a couple of days..... first time doing freehand scrolls. Still need bit of tweaking. A question..... how would you go about attachibg the numbers? I plan to weld the scrolls and hide them with copper collars... my street name will hang from lower scrolls on a wood board.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 The classic penny end scrolls have a gradually opening space between the coils. A triangular space curled up. In the bottom photo, the scroll which would be above the number 4 when the sign is upright is the closest to that. Regarding the mounting of the numbers, ask yourself lots of questions....for instance... What is the behind the final sign mounting position? Plain background / fussy distracting detail / lots of space? Is it Front lit or Back lit? Would the numbers read more clearly if they were mounted on a sheet of steel, copper, glass or wood which was enclosed by the frame. Will they be more effective kissing the frame or visually floating away from it? Work out a fixing system which conforms to and works with all your answers. We have both mentioned copper. You are aware of bi metallic corrosion and how you avoid that being an issue when you mix metals for exterior use? Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laertius Posted August 16, 2016 Author Share Posted August 16, 2016 Hmmmmm.... I am not quite sure i understand your comment on the scrolls? Do you mean the ends are not done correctly or that the scroll ratio is off? Or both? I can sharpen the ends with a round or half round file.... but if i have to coil them out again as well i could just re-forge. As this is an outdoor piece with mild and bed spring steel, I was thinking white painted numbers and black everything else... As to the copper - would it work and look alright if done After paint? Thanks for feed back. One win today was that folding and forge welding the lower pointed scrolls on the bed frame pieces went very well and i now have it all boxed to look like a large bar split and then scrolled. Will show pic after clean up tomorrow. And the background will be my house...grey siding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 I think there is no "correctly" with regard to form...you do whatever you want. My observations were because you mentioned they needed a bit of tweaking and I was tying to describe the classic form of penny end in case that may help you to visually analyse them. You may well wish to go even further from the "classic" form, your choice! The most powerful scrolls I have seen are almost barbaric and certainly not smooth flowing 18 century classic form. There are loads of images if you google penny end scroll, even some you tube videos if you want to go down the conventional route. You will see what I meant by gradually opening space. The gap between the elements starts as a tangent to the snub/penny and gradually moves away from it further and further. On your ones the gap starts to open up but then it goes tight again. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laertius Posted August 17, 2016 Author Share Posted August 17, 2016 Thanks! I was looki g foryour feedback so no worries. I am thinking i will print one to scale to get the ratio right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 To prove my point...here is an illustration of a correct scroll! Lesley has just this hour returned from a visit to an "open garden" and her friend gave her this bit of plant for me as it was scroll-y. I thought it was too coincidental to be true! You can see that the spiral part is pretty regular in its gradual and consistent transition, but that the flower although it came off tangentially did not conform to classic form of the penny end scroll...obviously whoever designed the plant had not studied 18 century ironwork best-practice! Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 I was compiling a response when you posted, but mine then disappeared...grrr. I have started a new thread with a similar title (disappeared House Number Sign) and tried to report it to the mods to insert it here...but then the software would not forward the report to the mods....double grrr. Maybe this one won't arrive either... Alan p.s wow! it did and it brought the image I had been trying to post in also...now I am really confused Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laertius Posted August 17, 2016 Author Share Posted August 17, 2016 Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 You might be interested in a thread we had about scrolls and spirals a few months ago... http://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/28811-spirals-scrolls-and-growth-linesmy-understanding/?page=1 Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laertius Posted August 19, 2016 Author Share Posted August 19, 2016 Thank you... and i had read thatand as you know from your writing style, there is ahuge diff between THEORY and PRACTICE so.... going to prime and paint tomorrow it is not perfect in my eyes... but good enough for now! Will update with final pic once up! And i was reminded how much i want a bottle for the mig... flux core splatter is a pain lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 I had a long rambly reply to your response to Alan's first reply and BOY am I glad I didn't send it. Nothing really wrong with it just not really useful. Spirals in nature follow the "golden mean" or "golden ratio" and it's pleasing to human eyes. You can find so much about the golden mean, now to develop it and so on I'm not going to waste your valuable reading time by trying to describe it myself. I'm replying now because I like your house number sign without the top elements. The simple "V" with the house number in it looks nice. It's clean, simple, balanced and conveys the message perfectly. I REALLY like it better, even the uneven nature of the numbers fits it perfectly. Of course that's just my opinion I could be wrong. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laertius Posted August 19, 2016 Author Share Posted August 19, 2016 And i was reminded how much i want a bottle for the mig... flux core splatter is a pain lol Thanks for reply frosty! I had several scetches with and without the upper and lower 'spirals' I have done a lot of succesful spirals, but for sone reason the penney messes with my eye! The uneveness was intentional as the numbers and spirals are also not spot on.... was hoping to distort the post as well but as it is 2 pieces of angle welded together I am worried about busting the ground down welds... We shall see tomorrow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Unevenness is one thing mismatched is another. The lower section and number elements have an attractive roughness to them. The upper elements on the other hand are long and thin with outsized scrolls. This is by appearance, looking at the strip stock edge on the eye sees 1/8" where the rest is robust. The two scales just don't fit to my eye. Have you done any texturing? You can create a lot of excellent effects with the right texturing and nothing makes better texturing tools than beat to death old hammers. One of my favorites is a yard sale ball pein hammer that was pretty beat up and got thrown in to get rid of it. I heated it a nice low orange and stood for several heats rapping it lightly on my hardy. It makes a nice wood grain texture, I like it on split crosses. One thought I haven't gotten around to trying yet is brazing BBs to a piece of plate in a tight mass. Then get an old hammer head into the yellow and drive it onto the BBs with a single jack sledge. I'm thinking it might provide a nice beaded or scale texture. Ah heck got off on a ramble . . . again. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kozzy Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 17 hours ago, Frosty said: The lower section and number elements have an attractive roughness to them. The upper elements on the other hand are long and thin with outsized scrolls. This is by appearance, looking at the strip stock edge on the eye sees 1/8" where the rest is robust. The two scales just don't fit to my eye. Frosty The Lucky. Taste is a curious thing. What I see is the implication of a house roof, fitting symbolism for a house number sign. If I were designing form scratch, I might even add greater emphasis to the parts which seem to annoy you a bit. I guess the lesson here is that there is no perfect or correct. It's "art". Forge as pleases YOUR eye and you will always be guaranteed 2 responses: Those who like it and those who don't. Don't sweat the "don't like it" crowd as they are always non-visionaries Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 The potential representation of a roof line is strong but houses aren't V shaped below the roof so it's a mismatch thematically. To my eye that is. I was pretty careful to emphasize it being MY taste, nothing absolute to it. To quote my maternal Grandmother, my sister and I called her Mom everybody else called her Susie, "To each his own, said the old lady as she kissed the cow." Hey, wait a minute, I don't see no non-visionaryness here! Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laertius Posted August 20, 2016 Author Share Posted August 20, 2016 Lol ... agreed on all fronts.. if i had the time I'd do another - just for direct comparison Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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