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Forging a Thistle?


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Hello, I have been toying with the idea of forging a thistle, as I am in Scotland and its the national emblem. It seems like a good idea for items for tourists in the summer. I make flowers that sell really well, and am trying to ''diversify'.

I have thought of numerous ways- the most straightforward might be making a short squat pineapple twist for the body, and then chiselling detail to create the spiky top. I haven't tried it yet though. I was just wondering if anyone else has had any success, and if you could share your ideas with me?

Thanks,
Colleen

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I've never made a thistle myself... but I think I'm going to go in the shop this weekend and try out one or two (and if they come out well enough, turn them into kilt pins)

Here's a link to a picture of one that's just carved from a piece of horn which would be a simple way to perhaps make a flat-forged thistle. And if you plan on selling to tourists or the like, setting up a press with dies could probably make them very fast to make and consistant.



it seems that to get the bulbus shape you'd have to upset the area that you want to do the pinaple twist with, and as they say, upsetting is ... upsetting. Perhaps if you start with larger stock and swage down around a bulb shape with a cone on top, you could make a swage that would give you a bulb and the top, and then forge down a stem and some leaves, and chisle out the top from there.

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P.S. I should have thought to make a thistle long ago. When I first learned to forge, the fellow teaching me was working at a ren-faire. Said i could work with him all day long every weekend if i just paid for a ticket to the faire and wore something costume-ish. So I threw on a rough muslin shirt and my kilt (strathclyde district tartan, where my familly's from) and learned to forge wearing a kilt.

Real men wear kilts =)

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Something threee dimensional is what I am after...

Relief work, in sheet etc just doesn't really come naturally to me not that I don't like it, I just tend to like to work with round/square stock. The idea of making a rounded bulb, I would tend to draw down areas rather than upsetting. Or maybe a combination of both, I just find that upsetting usually takes me a long time and I need something I can do in not so much time.

I have in my minds eye a picture of what I want to do, I am sure I have seen forged thistles before somewhere, but I've image googled it and can't find anything.

Ouch, I can't imagine wearing a kilt to smith in... Earlier today I dropped a piece that slid down my leg, I am glad I was wearing something on my legs!

It has to be said, most men do look pretty fine in a kilt...

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Colleen,
I visited your web site, you do amazing work. I thoroughly enjoyed reading about your travels in India and your experiences there. To help us help you how about posting a pic of a scottish thistle and challenge everyone to make a version. Pick the one you like and the maker can post the process for you.

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Ouch, I can't imagine wearing a kilt to smith in... Earlier today I dropped a piece that slid down my leg, I am glad I was wearing something on my legs!

It has to be said, most men do look pretty fine in a kilt...


I must say, I probably learned to be more carefull around the forge while learning wearing a kilt more for not wanting to burn a hole in an expensive wool kilt than for concern for getting something hot against my leg :D


Sam's suggestion of using pipe is a good one, that's the way I made a pair of tulip candle holders.

Hrm, this thread has got me thinking now about the next New Hampshire Highland Games. The last games had not a single custom blade maker, nor a metal smith. Maybe I should contact someone and see how much it'd cost to get a booth. I bet hand made sgian dubhs and forged goods would sell very well.

http://www.tharkis.com/images/nhgames.jpg

I'm the one in the Buchanan tartan with the beard (I was 'adopted' as a buchanan for the games by the people camping next to me who were the regional heads of the buchanan society)
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I'll admit that I own one =) as well as two "amerikilts" (AmeriKilt) which are solid color 'casual modern kilts' as well I attended the New England Blacksmith's fall meet wearing my utilikilt. Maybe it came from learning to forge in a kilt and wearing a kilt at special occasions, but they're darned comfortable when doing hot work =P

It helped me sell every item that I had to tailgate too. I just put a sign in the back of my truck "see the guy wearing a kilt for questions" and no one had a problem finding me.

It was rather humerous when I ran into another fellow at the meet wearing a Utilikilt's Tshirt, but not a utilikilt, so I got to harass him for it. He didnt think anyone would notice !

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I like the price of Amerikilts much better than what Utilikilts wants for theirs. Seems like a lot of money for something to wear. I've big bucks for cold weather gear but not for something that is mostly a fashion statement. I like the additional pockets that utilkilt offers but not for $250 +. $98 for Amerikilts is much more reasonable.

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Jimbob- I like that idea of the Russian Rose, ok I take back what I said earlier about not working with sheet, It might work if I cut out with the plasma... then weld it to a bit of rod... hmmm will have to try one of those

A-Man -I also like the idea of the guillotine tool... but I am a bit of a rubbish blacksmith when it comes to making my own tools. I make jigs for stuff all the time, but I get nervous at things with moving parts. May try that tho if I feel overly confident one day and have time to kill, will keep it in mind

Thank you Alan B, India was full on... I was contacted recently by a journalist working for National Geographic who is doing an article on the Lohars, he wanted some background info etc, before he goes out there himself. Article coming some time this year, keep eyes peeled.

Jmercier, I think you may have a bit of a kilt fetish.:)
and Larrynjr, I hate to break it to you guys, but anything with a hem on it is no longer a kilt, and becomes a skirt.:rolleyes: (or so I have been told by old time local who is a seventh generation Atholl Highlander, our Castle's private army)

I am just finishing off another fire set, then I have a set of gates to do, then I can start experimenting.

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Sorry Colleen, I didn't mean to hijack your post and turn it to one about kilts. If I do end up getting one of the kilt variations it won't bother me if it's hemmed. No one but a true Scot would know the difference anyhow!

Returning your post to topic though, I'll have to pass on trying to forge a thistle till after my neck gets better. I'm thinking even when that happens any attempt I make will be pretty ugly creation indeed. For now I'll leave it to better smiths than I to show their craft.

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Take a look at the BP0302 Eternity Rose from metal . It uses tubing and fuller it down to get the base of the rose. You might be able to do another fuller to get the main bulb part. Perhaps if you localize heat if you have an OA torch.

Just a thought.

At least it will get you the shape. My first smithing (and only to date) was a few eternity roses. Used the OA torch for all the heating. Check my Gallery for a few pics.

Not sure on how to get the texturing to make it look more prickly.

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Thanks Covforge. The Horse head is life size too. This year for the Horse Trials here I may attempt the whole horse. Will have to transport it to the show in a horse box (trailer)!

larrynjr & Pete, no worries. I personally am not worried with whether a kilt/skirt has a hem or not... and I happen to like those amerikilts/utilikilts... do think they are bit pricey tho...

Anyone point me to the direction of Blueprints for guillotine/fuller tool?

Thanks guys.:)

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BP0065 Guillotine Anvil Tool - I Forge Iron - Blacksmithing and Metalworking

Colleen here is Juniors blueprint for his guillotine. I chopped and killed a few thistles in my youth ( Canadian Thistles spread by birds ). Dad put coal oil on them to kill them. Pastures and hay ground. BTW for anyone interested, just start looking at the first section of blueprints and go down by the page. Lot of information on this website.
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There's a guy on Fogg's knife forum who does some incredible work with cable damascus. (Sam will know who I'm talking about)

He only welds the blade area to homogenous, but leaves the cable intact on the spine and at the bolster.

You might come up with something "thistle looking" using a similar technique.

Using cable, you might have a tightly welded stem, a loosely welded bulb, and an unwelded and frayed blossom.

I ain't gonna try it :P, but that's the only thing that comes to mind right now.

Don

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Don A,

I read your description and it reminded me a little of this cable knife by "LDW" that I saw in the Glenn's gallery recently. I suspect this knife's handle was made using exactly the techniques you suggested for the thistle. It looks like it would be possible to tease out the wires to form the purple part of the thistle and then stuff it into an appropriately fullered and textured piece of pipe.

4894.attach

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