matt87 Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Inspired by the various oil-burning forges and furnaces I've ben noticing around the interweb and not having the money/space/inclination to deal with potentially explosive gasses, I've been wondering about the usefulness of an oil-burning torch for blacksmiths. My ideas so far are quite simple; basically a smaller injection-style oil burner as demonstrated here:A homemade waste oil burner Considering it's capable of melting cast iron I'm sure it'd be useful as a general heating torch in the style of oxy-gas torches. Heck, with a powerful blower, I'm wondering if torch cutting would be possible? Any thoughts on the issue anybody? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Patrick Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 There exists a cutting rig that uses gasoline instead of actylene. The name of the manufacturer escapes me right now. Also, I know the rock quarry industry uses a torch that is fueled with fuel oil to blast channels into rock face. I would imagine that the biggest sticky widget is feeding the fuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timekiller Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Just be careful in experimentation, pure oxygen and oil do not like each other (boom) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispinnh Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Hi guys . The gasoline cutting outfit is manufactured by PETROGEN. It works well here in the junkyard. Mostly because we use the gas from recycled vehicles to run it. If you were to buy the fuel....over 3 bucks a gallon.... you wouldnt save any money over acetylene. But it cuts thick , thin , even double and triple layers covered in dirt and rust. I have even cut through some loader bucket pins the long way.........about 8 inches......no problem. Of course I am using a number 8 tip.And the whole outfit was pretty chewy at over 1200 bucks , if memory serves correct , and that was prolly 6-7 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbillysmith Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 TK, I think that the BOOM only occurs when there is friction or a heat source of some type to ignite the two. Remember the Combustion Cycle? They say not to use oil on the regulators b/c of the speed at which the oxygen comes out and hits the seat is supposedly fast enough to create the amount of heat that it takes to set it off. But, you are most certainly right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Any fuel in the presence of oxy under pressure is a fire/explosion hazard. Fuel oil has a saturation point in air that is smack in the middle of it's flamable range. Any volatile will evaporate untill the air can't hold any more. Heating oil, diesel or parafin fuel oils will naturally evaporate untill it reaches a flamable ratio with the air it's in contact with and being saturated will not evaporate any more. This means that any air in an enclosed space with fuel oils is an explosive mixture. Gasoline isn't as dangerous as it's saturation point is beyond it's flamable range, there isn't enough oxy left for it to burn in an enclosed space. There are other problems with fuel oil fired forges but the danger posed by a spill is the biggest. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timekiller Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Question - What and why are there safety hazards with oil and oxygen? --------------------------------------- Oil is combustible. In pure oxygen, it is flammable. Fire hazards of many substances are accentuated in oxygen, especially compressed oxygen. Did you see the beginning of the movie Apollo 13? So not really a boom, but still hazardous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 It can be a real serious boom if the conditions are right and it doesn't make a lot of difference what the flamable material is. A few years ago there were some pics and videos of a guy named George Goble (not the comedian) who lit BBQs with LOX. He'd pile a few lbs of charcoal briquettes in a BBQ with one lit one on top then pour LOX on the pile. REALLY spectacular show, super bright flame and afterward nothing but some bits of burnt and melted BBQ in a circle of scorched earth. Wicked COOL. Son of a gun the pics are still out there. Last time I looked they'd been taken down and I couldn't find any. Seems like they're back. 2.5How To.html The one serious hazard next to the obvious one was not having a lit briquette on the pile when you start pouring. If there's a burning briquette the pile just burns as fast as you can pour the LOX on till there's nothing flamable left. If on the other hand you pour LOX on an unlit pile, then light it, it'll go off like an equal number of sticks of 80% dynamite. Even if you don't light it the oxy'll flow till it either finds an ignition source or finds something with a flash point below the ambient temp. Flash points in a pure oxy atmosphere are MUCH lower than in air. LOX is fun stuff if you're the careful type otherwise it can be a real shattering experience. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten Hammers Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 I used to fill oxygen converters for aircraft. These converters were removed from the aircraft, then placed on a cart taken to my area of the flight line. A nurse tank on wheels was used to fill the converters. In training we were always told that any form of petroleum in contact with liquid oxygen would be explosive. The films showed actual footage of accidents and of course there were poster kids of accidents ( sometimes death, sometimes dis-memberment ). I would definitely use caution when handling LOX or gasseous 02. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt87 Posted January 16, 2008 Author Share Posted January 16, 2008 These sorts of stories are why I want to avoid bottled gasses and the like. I'm thinking a good blower and some (filtered) WVO, just like the oil burning forge I linked to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timekiller Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 These sorts of stories are why I want to avoid bottled gasses and the like. I'm thinking a good blower and some (filtered) WVO, just like the oil burning forge I linked to. Yup... that sounds a LOT safer. Good luck, if you decide to build it. I may also give it a try. I have a lot of oil sitting around. The only thing I don't know, is what do you use as a pump for the oil? I assume the oil needs to be pressurized. One way, you could have a bucket with a siphon tube. Seal the bucket and have a fitting with a valve hooked up to a shop compressor. The more PSI fed into the bucket, the stronger the blast of oil. I just wonder if there is any electric pump alternatives to this, it would be a lot simpler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt87 Posted January 16, 2008 Author Share Posted January 16, 2008 Well most force-air WVO burners I've seen simply use a gravity feed, with an on/off ball valve or a needle valve to allow more linear control. I've thought of having a small foot-pump providing a small pressure of air in the oil tank (there's something like this on the site I linked to in the OP). An electric pump might work too. I've also considered the possibility of using a diesel pump from a car; WVO is a little more viscous than diesel but many people run their diesel cars on it exclusively, so there shouldn't be a problem there. The blower I would use needs 24VDC @ 5A for full blast and it's noisy so I'll probably be building a custom PSU anyway, so I could just add another bit on to vary the fuel pump flow rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 You may want to look into a drip system with WVO being gravity fed. I STRONGLY recommend that you consider procedures to prevent a flame out situation, as re-ignition can make things very exciting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 You may want to look into a drip system with WVO being gravity fed. I STRONGLY recommend that you consider procedures to prevent a flame out situation, as re-ignition can make things very exciting. Losing the blower tends to make any oil fired system into a fuel air bomb. There's certainly no reason these things can't be done, we had a fuel oil forge in my high school metal shop. The thing is they can be really dangerous and the hazards aren't necessarily intuitive. One method is to put a fuel oil burner from a boiler in a forge body. This is the fastest, easiest way to do it and have all the safety measures in place. It's basically plug and play. WVO is okay if you filter it and do the precipitation steps to remove the harmful components. It certainly won't cause an explosive situation just by spilling or leaking onto the floor. Slip hazard? Oh yes but that's a small thing. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timekiller Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 I was bored, and I had a few scrap pieces around, so I tried to build an oil burner. It seems that it will work with a hotter starting flame. Im going to mess around with it this weekend. I hope to use it for an oil fired forge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 Babington BurnerA homemade waste oil burnerBabington Oil Burner HOWTO These are just a few URLs regarding oil burners, most notably Babington burners. Searching "Babington burners" "waste oil burners" or "fuel oil burners" will put you into more info than you want. A friend of mine has made a successful oil burner using an air brush as an injection nozzle. I searched all but the first one as the links in my book were mostly all dead. One thing I noticed as I glanced through these I posted hasn't changed since I last looked a couple years ago. Virtually all of them are burning with a yellow flame. There are blue flame oil burners out there but they have problems of their own. Containing the fire is a big item. Good luck, play safe and keep us posted. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 IForgeIron Forum thread Quenching in old motor oil If the hazards exist for quenching, they exist for burning the same oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timekiller Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 So I built more of a box design as the "combustion chamber" And it seems wo work much better. I cannot however get it to hold ignition solely on oil. I think I will change the drip point. And I was able to melt aluminum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.