ironmutt Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 has any one used this brand http://www.walmart.com/ip/43062374?wmlspartner=wlpa&adid=22222222227030820775&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=55974472856&wl4=&wl5=pla&wl6=99933964376&veh=sem if so any thoughts on it its about half the cost but that kinda scares me cause i know you get what you pay for (ok looked little more this only #6 but they have #8 for only $83 for 24" by 25') Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzkill Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 I haven't used it, but that's the 6 cubic feet per pound density and normally I see the 8 cu. ft/lb pound density recommended for what we do. That is also available for a little more money. Continuous use at 1922 F is ok for most forging, but is a little low for welding. I'd probably only get that if I had no other decent options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagboy69 Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 Still seems strange to see walmarts name attached to certain items. If only it was available down at the corner. lol I'm not seeing half the cost here. And it's rated to 2300 degrees. Looks fine to me. I got a roll of kaowool from these guys. http://www.armadilloclay.com/j-k.html Sign up at Zoro and they send out 20% coupons all the time. Sometimes they even email a 25% off! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 Buzzkill you have the weight backwards, it's 6lbs. per cu/ft and or 8lbs. per cu/ft. The higher the temp rating is generally denser. At 2,300f this stuff might work but I don't have to buy a whole roll and 8# Kaowool is rated @ 2,600f. A complete rebuild on my 4 burner adjustable volume shape shop forge takes about 9-10 sq/ft EJ Bartells our local commercial HVAC guys sell 8# Kaowool by sq/ft or give us drops. The only guy in our club who buys in quantity is the professional bronze caster and he buys in rolls and boxes. All that maundering and I guess I don't know. I have no experience with the product and it's not enough of a price break to experiment with. Not here or now. I did a quick search, this is the first hit. http://www.neobits.com/unitherm_cf6_1_48x25_ceramic_fiber_blanket_6_lb_p7967861.html Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzkill Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 Not sure what you mean Frosty. He linked to the 6 and I said the 8 is normally recommended. Both show the same max and continuous use rating in the description, but they have different R values. Nevermind. I figured out what you meant. I was just repeating the info on the site rather than thinking: Ceramic Fiber Insulation, Length 25 ft., Width 24 In., Density 6 cu. ft./lb., Material Aluminum Silicate Fiber, Thickness 1 In., Approx. ''R'' Value 1.06, Max. Temp. 2300 Degrees F, Continuous Use Temp. 1922 Degrees F, Standards UL 723 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 11 minutes ago, Buzzkill said: Not sure what you mean Frosty. He linked to the 6 and I said the 8 is normally recommended. Both show the same max and continuous use rating in the description, but they have different R values. Nevermind. I figured out what you meant. I was just repeating the info on the site rather than thinking: Ceramic Fiber Insulation, Length 25 ft., Width 24 In., Density 6 cu. ft./lb., Material Aluminum Silicate Fiber, Thickness 1 In., Approx. ''R'' Value 1.06, Max. Temp. 2300 Degrees F, Continuous Use Temp. 1922 Degrees F, Standards UL 723 Ah, I see a typo on the site, I didn't do more than scan the one I opened in a search. That site didn't make that mistake. I want to take issue I just wanted to help avoid confusion for folk down the road. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzkill Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 Looks like NeoBits did the same thing on some of their listings as well, so maybe the description came from the manufacturer that way - or they've found a way to confuse us into paying more for less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 1 hour ago, Buzzkill said: Looks like NeoBits did the same thing on some of their listings as well, so maybe the description came from the manufacturer that way - or they've found a way to confuse us into paying more for less. I think it's marketing guys is all, they're not paid to know anything about a product's specs. Not really anyway. Getting us to pay more for less IS the credo of marketeers. For example, ever wonder about paying good money to filter minerals out of our water then buy vitamins to take care of our mineral deficiencies? Recently it's been yummy chewable vitamins for adults! About filtering drinking cooking, etc. water some water NEEDS to be filtered or just avoided entirely. Wanna bet the Admin in Flint Mi. wasn't drinking tap water? We just spent $150.00 to have our well water tested. An earthquake a couple months ago had everything underground stirred up significantly, I was running water through an outside hose for weeks to get the sand and silt cleared. I'm really surprised the water softener guys weren't going door to door the first few weeks after the quake. Uh were was I? Oh yeah, marketeers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmutt Posted April 14, 2016 Author Share Posted April 14, 2016 when i search i look for 1 inch thick 24 inch wide then compare prices based on equal lenths and shipping i know the density and how many layers will affect the performance and coating it . my main concern is this isnt a name brand more expensive typ like Kaowool but possibly a chinese knock off i keep seeing the same quantity from 100 and up plus 30 to ship on most the sites. the #8 is 83 with free shipping from zorro thru walmart . i know that is a lot of product but what i dont use for forge can go on a shelf till i need it since there are people on amazon selling the same thickness and width in 31 inch lenths for $50 i can always cut it in 3 foot lenths and sell it off to make my money back more profit then selling other things and no fear of paternaty test Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timgunn1962 Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 It looks fine to me, at least for a forging forge or, if you are into knives/swords, a HT forge. I've not found any discernable performance or handling difference between blankets of the same density and temperature rating from different manufacturers from my hairyarse-with-hammer perspective (this is completely unlike my experience with IFB). There are so many other variables involved with forge building that few of us are ever likely to build to a standard design that allows the differences between blankets to become apparent. I have found that the higher-density stuff seems to be more able to tolerate the prodding and poking it gets from the workpiece and the erosion it gets from the hot, high-speed gases near the burner. I would normally go for the 8 Lb/cuft version, not the 6 Lb/cuft, primarily for this reason, together with its better insulation properties. However, in this case the R values are looking pretty odd to me. I'm used to seeing thermal conductivity drop as blanket density increases http://www.unifrax.eu.com/web/Audit.nsf/ByUNID/6CCA5961F2AEEBCC85257F950069198C/$File/Fiberfrax%20Durablanket%20S%20EN.pdf The R-value is a measure of thermal resistance, so I'd expect it to increase as blanket density increases and thermal conductivity drops. For the Unitherm, it does the opposite, based on the 1.06 R value for the 6Lb/cuft and .75 for the 8 lb/cuft. https://www.zoro.com/unitherm-ceramic-insulation-24-in-w-25-ft-cf8-1-24x25/i/G8489634/ I suspect that the quoted R value is based on a temperature difference of around 70 degF and that the heat transfer mechanism is probably very different at typical forge temperatures. I don't know how great the cost saving is with the Unitherm blanket where you are, but I suspect the overall cost saving will be smaller once you look at the various other things you'll need to build a forge and take shipping into account. It is entirely possible to simply line a shell with a double layer of 1" blanket and fit a burner to get a usable starter forge, but it makes for a fragile lining and you need to be very careful about airborne fibers. Some sort of coating and/or rigidizer is definitely a good idea and it gets much easier if you can one-stop-shop for everything. Frosty has done some playing around with homebrewed coatings and I've tried some myself with moderate success. The best I've found to date is about a 2:1 mixture by volume of Zirconium Silicate (Zircopax) and powdered porcelain clay, mixed to a single-cream-like consistency with a solution of Sodium Silicate in water. Sodium Silicate is sold in varying concentrations and this makes it difficult to give dilution rates on a volume basis. My best results so far have been with a Sodium Silicate solution density of 1100-1150 grams/litre. Liberally sloshing on the mixture lets it soak into the surface with the Sodium Silicate penetrating perhaps an inch, The clay/Zircopax only penetrates perhaps 1/8" into the blanket and most of it stays on the surface. You only get one attempt at it so too much is better than too little: once the clay has formed a continuous top layer, it's pretty impermeable and a second coat just will not soak in. It needs to be dried well before heat is applied, otherwise it balloons. Once fired, it seems to be reasonably durable (I give it a couple of hours at a temperature I'd consider a good bladesmiths welding temperature; around 1300 degC (2350-2400 degF)). I've not tried its flux resistance yet and I don't expect it to be great. It's certainly not suitable for a heavy-use forge, but seems pretty good for a hobby forge. I'll only really know if it holds up ok in a couple of years. Zircopax, Porcelain powder and Sodium Silicate are all readily available from pottery suppliers, usually in reasonably small quantities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmutt Posted April 14, 2016 Author Share Posted April 14, 2016 my plan is to make a half moon shaped with the blanket on all sides with kiln shelf on the botom on top of the seam of the wool then refractory cement on all the exposed surfaces of the wool with a split metal door lined with wool that opens like french doors with a notch out of the bottom corners of then to alow handels to stick out the bottom will be 3/8 plate with the moon part being 16 gauge with a lip on the front about 2 inches down from the top with wool wraping the lip so when i close the doors its wool to wool makeing some what of a seal at top and sides of doors then having a multipe burner set up it will be about 18 inches deep with the back end closed off for now with a plan to put a door on the back later i will takes lots of pics and post once i start my orignal plan got scraped cause i had to use the pipe i had for a different project ' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.