Forging Carver Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Hi I have been reading the gas forge section so much that my eyes couldn't handle the light of my computer screen. I have been looking for an answer to a question I have on flares. So here it is. Well actually I will tell you what I think is right and you guys can correct me. So I believe that the flare is welded to your burner mount. The burner mount stays out of the forge, and the flare goes into the lining but stops right before the chamber. I was looking at Wayne coes propane forge and it looks like he cuts the burner mount on a 45? It is either this or some how he drills a hole in the tank so that the burner mount and flare go in at an angle. I know that having the burner on an angle like this creates a more even hear in the forge. Sorry if this sounds confusing, but if one of you can clear this up, it would be greatly appreciated. Here's a diagram of what I drew on how I think the burner and flare should look like. Let me know if I am wrong. Thanks so much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Good Morning, Normally a "Flare" is a shape, Flared Shape. A "Flare" will sit on the outside of your burner tube, tack welded or screwed into place (to make it replaceable). A "Flare" is considered a consumable, sometimes it needs to be replaced. A "Flare" is to spread the Flame, so as to not create such a tiny 'Hot Spot'. just my $0.02 Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forging Carver Posted February 18, 2016 Author Share Posted February 18, 2016 Alright thank you. I am still a bit confused, but I will read around a bit more and hopefully find u destined a bit more. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 You're looking at too many burner plans and confusing terms and parts. Not everybody uses the same term for the same piece. You really REALLY need to pick ONE set of plans and follow it only. For instance, While correct Neil is also incorrect but it depends on who's plans you're using. A flare as used on Ron Reil's burner is NOT to spread the flame, not even remotely. It's to slow it down by making it fill a larger volume and so increase the vacuum at the air intakes. More intake air means you can feed it more fuel and generate more BTUs per second. Then, slowing the velocity of the flame makes it stay closer to the nozzle and more stable. This action fools a LOT of people into thinking the flare is a "flame holder." Just because it helps hold the flame at the nozzle does NOT mean it IS a flame holder. It's an induction aid. Nor is it a "super Charger" as has been said. One set of plans. Just one and try to ask help from the person who made the plans. For instance if you were to ask me about problems with one of the burners on Wayne's page I'd have to read his page then question YOU and guess. One set of plans. Have I said that enough times? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forging Carver Posted February 19, 2016 Author Share Posted February 19, 2016 Alright. Glad you mentioned that. I had no idea flares were used for different purposes. I read Wayne's page and it said to attach the flare to burner mount. And then read your t burner instructions and you said that you may or may not need a flare. I was a bit confused, but I contacted Wayne and he should help. Thank you for putting up with my probobly dumb questions. Don't even say there is no such thing as a dumb question, because you will regret saying it . Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 You're not really that hard to put up with. If we could just slow you down a little you'd be using your burner now and asking about making things. I Never say there's no such thing as a dumb question, I only have to try a little bit to come up with one myself. I have other less straight line ways to get that point across. for instance, "Ask a question you might look dumb for a minute, don't ask it and be dumb forever." About your post and how combining how Wayne mounts a flare, whether or not I use one and how many "purposes" other folk think flares have confuses you. You make my point for me. Stop mixing different plans, makers and internet cluster nut burner jibberish. If you're building one of Wayne's burners build HIS burner stop asking me questions, stop watching Youtube videos, etc. One set of plans, one material list, one use. Forget the reasons why a thing works, if it works use it and don't worry about it. Understanding it on a fundamental level isn't going to help maybe it'll be interesting sometime down the road but not now. Trying to "understand" the things is why you keep asking the same questions over and over. Well that and you're looking at too many people's ideas of why it does what it does. Take a few courses in fluid dynamics if you really want to "understand" this stuff. I just tinkered up something that works in a pickup truck sort of way. Others like Mike have tinkered up a formula 1 version. The real goal is get steel hot enough to mash at will. Yes? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Frosty is right, But explaining things till you eyeballs turn up would be fun; still, in your case he has told you what you're best off knowing, so I'm going to behave,,,this time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forging Carver Posted February 19, 2016 Author Share Posted February 19, 2016 Yeah. I have always been like that. I always have to understand something before I do it. Actually, I am building the T Burner, but using Wayne Coes forge build plans. His forge plans say just briefly to attach a flare. Your burner plans say you may or may not need a flare. I have yet to find something that goes into a bit more depth on how the flare is supposed to be attached. I'll figure it out. Also, if it were up to me, my forge and burner would have been built already. Unfortunately I have to wait until my dad will take me to the HVAC place and hardware store. I try to remind him but then he gets a little bit ticked, but eventually we will get there. Thanks for the help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yahoo2 Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 Forging Carver, you are almost there. the burner mounting bracket/holder/ring is fitted or welded to the forge outer skin, then the burner (with or without a flare) is poked through the ring into position and clamped in place with some set screws. there are plenty of variations of this but that is the basic principal. the flare is either attached to the burner tube, part of the forge refractory or not there at all depending on the design and performance of the burner and the forge. if the flare is on the burner tube then there must be enough diameter inside the mounting bracket to insert the flare through it and into the forge lining. I think building the mounting bracket with a slight angle is about directing the flame at the floor rather than onto the refractory wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forging Carver Posted February 20, 2016 Author Share Posted February 20, 2016 Alright thank you very much. That helped lots. So basically the only thing that gets welded is the burner mount. You then just slide the flare onto the burner. Then you cut through the refractory so that when you put in the burner with the attached flare, they will go into the forge. Now I think if I get this question answered, I will be all set and a whole lot more confident. It is that how would I make it so that the burner goes in the forge at a tangent level? If I just drill a regular hole, then the burner will be going straight down and not at an angle. Thank you all so very much. After this, I should be all set and the next time you will hear from me in the gas forge section should hopefully be the pictures of the finished forge. Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 Not quite all; you need to use socket head screws to keep the flame nozzle in place on the burner; otherwise it would slide right off of it. If you really want to know what goes where, and why, get a copy of Gas Burners for Forges, furnaces, & Lllns from Amazon.com, or download a pirated PDF version of this book from the net. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 Here're a couple build tricks for you regarding drilling an angled hole in the shell. As you say angling the burner tube through a perpendicular hole can be problematical. 1st. solution is to drill the hole oversize. A little kaowool stuffed around the openings and it's tight. Another method is using a hole saw and replacing the pilot bit with a LONG one. This will allow you to cut the hole at an angle but it takes a delicate touch if you don't have a drill press. Lastly (for the short list) is cutting the hole with a saber saw. To mark the pattern wrap the burner tube with light cardboard or a couple layers of printer paper ad tape it. Slide it off the burner and using tape it to the forge shell a few inches away at the angle you like. How shine a light through the paper tube and mark the light pattern on the shell with a pencil. You can calculate an oval but laying it on a curved surface leaves it a bit off. I usually use a hole saw a bit over size. For mounting the burner I like welding a piece of small angle iron, 3/4" is what I have on the pile right now. Weld it on at the angle you like and use a hose clamp on the burner. It's simple secure and adjustable. Simply inserting a bit of curved wire between the burner and bracket above or below the clamp will change the orientation nicely. The only burner I have with a flare is a linear sent to me by Jay Hayes when I bought a can of ITC-100 from him. That flare attaches with one set screw but it fits tight to the burner tube. I used it a couple times to evaluate it and it's been on the shelf since. Nice enough burner, stable and HOT but mine work fine, they ain't broke I'm not fixing them. I gave Jay's burners a good review, they ARE good burners. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forging Carver Posted February 21, 2016 Author Share Posted February 21, 2016 Thank you so much for that! That helped me out a lot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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