78sharpshooter Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 What do you mean by scrapping it? Please dont say you re tossing this blade!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.J.watts Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Surely that was sarcasm beautiful hamon!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78sharpshooter Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 What do you mean by scrapping it? Please dont say you re tossing this blade!!!! You can cheat and coat the hardened portion with nail polish and then re-etch it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffrat Posted November 12, 2015 Author Share Posted November 12, 2015 5 minutes ago, 78sharpshooter said: What do you mean by scrapping it? Please dont say you re tossing this blade!!!! You can cheat and coat the hardened portion with nail polish and then re-etch it. No cheating allowed. I'm done with it. I'm also done with investing time in stuff I'm not 100% happy with. Because when I do, I end up with something I'd rather not have. 9 minutes ago, T.J.watts said: Surely that was sarcasm beautiful hamon!! Nope. Not sarcasm and not the Hamon I was trying for. Stay tuned. I have a big art show the last two weekends this month, and a handle making demo to do in January. I think I might find enough time in December to forge and finish another blade. This one is headed for the scrap pile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.J.watts Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Well okay then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78sharpshooter Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 How close was your process to this http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/997744-My-Hamon-Process? I think your hamon looks great and on top of that, everything about the blade shape and lines is great too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyw Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 If you're truly scrapping the blade, I'll take it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Cochran Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 1 hour ago, tonyw said: If you're truly scrapping the blade, I'll take it! I was just thinkin the same thing lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Carnecchia Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Personally I would try to get the polish right before scrapping it. It's been my experience that much of the hamon's activity isn't going to be visible until it has been properly polished. While ferric seems popular, I think it tends to wash out some of the finer detail. I like to go as high as I can with paper, usually between 1500 and 3000g depending on what's available, then I use a powdered abrasive, either pumice powder or "pre-polish" from a rock tumbling set. After a bit with the powder most of the details become visible, then I give it a couple baths in hot vinegar. Clean it with flitz and call it good, maybe some mother's mag polish above the hamon to darken it. I can definitely see your decision to throw it away if your not entirely happy with it. That kind of drive is what will keep pushing your work to the next level. Personally though, I would take this blade as an opportunity to practice polishing, just to see what you can get out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffrat Posted November 12, 2015 Author Share Posted November 12, 2015 14 hours ago, 78sharpshooter said: How close was your process to this http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/997744-My-Hamon-Process? I think your hamon looks great and on top of that, everything about the blade shape and lines is great too. I have pretty much outlined my process along the way here and there is a Word doc attachment in one of my posts that includes other data on process. I am following a process taught by ABS MS John White before he passed. The fellow you sent a link to does a couple of things differently, but nothing drastic. One thing he does that I never do is rough grind before normalization and thermocycling. I don't know why people do that, it's just adding more stress to an already stressed out blade and asking for trouble. Besides, good thermocycling and annealing before you grind makes the grinding a lot easier and doesn't wear out your belts as fast. He also does fewer normalizing heats than I did, puts the cold knife into a very hot oven (that's trouble), and he tempers a little lower than I did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffrat Posted November 12, 2015 Author Share Posted November 12, 2015 29 minutes ago, Justin Carnecchia said: Personally I would try to get the polish right before scrapping it. It's been my experience that much of the hamon's activity isn't going to be visible until it has been properly polished. While ferric seems popular, I think it tends to wash out some of the finer detail. I like to go as high as I can with paper, usually between 1500 and 3000g depending on what's available, then I use a powdered abrasive, either pumice powder or "pre-polish" from a rock tumbling set. After a bit with the powder most of the details become visible, then I give it a couple baths in hot vinegar. Clean it with flitz and call it good, maybe some mother's mag polish above the hamon to darken it. I can definitely see your decision to throw it away if your not entirely happy with it. That kind of drive is what will keep pushing your work to the next level. Personally though, I would take this blade as an opportunity to practice polishing, just to see what you can get out of it. Please elaborate on the pumice and pre-polish powders. Like where you get them and what grades/grits, etc. Also, how you apply and polish with them. Mike Q uses a strip of denim backed by a stiff sanding board. Do you use something similar? I have also heard folks say they use everything from make-up removal pads to wet leather. I've made a couple of blades with a mirror polish and the idea of polishing just to practice is kinda unappealing.......just sayin'. 7 hours ago, Michael Cochran said: I was just thinkin the same thing lol. Sorry guys, I was going to put an edge and rough handle on this one and do some cutting and testing to destruction. That way I'll know whether the HT was on or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Carnecchia Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 The pre-polish powder I get at harbor freight. It comes in a rock tumbler polish powder kit. The pumice powder I get online, I use 2f and 4f. As far as fineness of the grade I would compare the pre-polish powder to the 2f pumice, but it is harder and cuts a bit faster. For backing, I use a block of micarta, or hardwood, then a couple of layers of soft cloth, finally the finest grade of sand paper I have. The powders are actually a bit coarser than the paper, so it has a whitening effect on the blade, but it is not the fineness of the polish, rather the detail we are bringing out that is important. I use the powder till I can clearly see the hamon and any ashi. Then I use the mother's mag polish above the hamon, applied with a soft rag. This burnishes the blade darkening it, if all goes well the blade is dark above the hamon and whiter below. I typically finish with hot vinegar and flitz. These last couple steps can get mixed around depending on the results I'm looking for/getting, and may be repeated. With your decision to scrap the blade, was it the overall shape of the hamon you didn't like or a lack of activity? Just curious. -Justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffrat Posted November 13, 2015 Author Share Posted November 13, 2015 8 hours ago, Justin Carnecchia said: With your decision to scrap the blade, was it the overall shape of the hamon you didn't like or a lack of activity? Just curious. -Justin Thanks for the info on the polishing powders. I'll check them out. As for the Hamon, there was nothing I liked about it. I typically leave my blades a bit beefy at heat treat and thin them down to desired thickness. What I didn't anticipate is the shape of the Hamon in cross section through the blade. As I ground through it, it spread out and lost all definition. It also traveled further down the blade toward the edge than I wanted. Important lesson learned: rough grind close to finished dimensions when doing Hamons. There are other issues with that blade that I can't abide. Most folks wouldn't notice them, or would say that they are minor, but take two or three minor issues, and suddenly they are all I can see. The Hamon just pushed me over the edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.J.watts Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Those tiny imperfections that only we notice will drive you crazy, I still think it's a nice blade but I also understand how the detail can get to you. That mentality will push your skills and make you better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Carnecchia Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 If we aren't pushing ourselves, no one will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 I'm no expert but it still looks like a beautiful blade. May not be up to your standards of looks but wouldn't it make a fully functional Bowie knife? Maybe without putting the "good stuff" on it as far as handle material you can still give it life. Its been a great journey watching it progress. Thanks for the insight whichever way you go with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffrat Posted November 14, 2015 Author Share Posted November 14, 2015 10 hours ago, Daswulf said: I'm no expert but it still looks like a beautiful blade. May not be up to your standards of looks but wouldn't it make a fully functional Bowie knife? Maybe without putting the "good stuff" on it as far as handle material you can still give it life. Its been a great journey watching it progress. Thanks for the insight whichever way you go with it. Thanks Das, I'm glad you got something out of it. Hopefully you got at least half of what I managed to learn so far, and this knife still has more to teach me. Destructive testing of your blades is an important part of being a knife maker. It is a difficult thing to do, because you spend some quality time making the blade, heat treating it, etc. and then you destroy it. I had made a smaller blade along side this one and I can probably salvage that and make a finished knife from it. It was going to be the test blade, but it seems like the roles have reversed. Maybe I'll record the testing with my GoPro and post the video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 On 11/13/2015, 9:04:47, cliffrat said: Thanks Das, I'm glad you got something out of it. Hopefully you got at least half of what I managed to learn so far, and this knife still has more to teach me. Destructive testing of your blades is an important part of being a knife maker. It is a difficult thing to do, because you spend some quality time making the blade, heat treating it, etc. and then you destroy it. I had made a smaller blade along side this one and I can probably salvage that and make a finished knife from it. It was going to be the test blade, but it seems like the roles have reversed. Maybe I'll record the testing with my GoPro and post the video. This has been alot of great information and the images help. seeing the destruction test would be very interesting as well. Again Thanks for posting and keeping us up on the process. Birth and death of a blade. very understandable to know that your work is what it needs to be quality and strength wise. I know i'd be pretty sad to destroy that much work but it's also done throughout industry to know products are up to standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjericho Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 That is a gorgeous blade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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