EDC WIP

[Michael Cochran]

I had a small piece of scrap 1084 (measuring about 2x1 1/4x5/32) that I was planning on using for a tomahawk and decided to wait since I do not possess a drift. Instead of letting it rust away I decided to make myself a little EDC. I should've taken pictures from much earlier in the process but we all know what a piece of barstock looks like and what it looks like covered in scale. I forged it pretty close to shape but have yet to get bevels forged right on any piece so I had a bunch of filing ahead of me. I cleaned up the profile with my two newest files (Nicholson utility and magicut) and also used them to cut my bevels in. I came back with a Walmart 8in double cut to smooth it out some and still have a ways to go. I do not plan on getting high up in the grits because I'm rough on my knives and plan to finish it at a lower grit than most consider a satin finish. 

If anyone has any questions or suggestions please feel free to share, especially if you see a problem. I know I have a few issues I still need to take care of but I might not see what you more experienced smiths might.

 

[TheoRockNazz]

Let's see what happens to that warp after HT; otherwise she's looking pretty good to me. The fun part happens after you HT, can't wait to see what comes of it.

Whatcha thinking for the handle?

[cliffrat]

I don't know what you are shooting for in terms of a finished look, or traditional blade design, but here's an idea.

If you are filing the bevels in, I suggest you either buy or make a center scribe and a filing jig/guide. Then take one or more of those files and remove the teeth from one edge. Then you can scribe the center line of the blade edge and file to it and you can clamp the file guide where you want the plunge cuts and create the plunge lines and a ricasso area.

[Michael Cochran]

I haven't figured out the handle material just yet but do plan on putting an angled bolster. The bolster will come from about where the blade turns down into the tang on top to just about where I stopped filing the bevels. I am going to pull the bevels back into the tang a little further so the bolster will slide up from the tang and have a good friction fit (hopefully). I also plan to give it a little bit of a bump on bottom to give a little bit of a finger guard shape.

cliff, I usually just use a drill bit to mark my centerline. It was a little more difficult on this one since there is a slight taper but it still got me pretty close.

i need to clean up my bevels some more, right now they have a bit of a convex shape to them and I'm not a fan of that. I still have lots of practice filing left on this blade and hopefully will be better by the time I'm done with it.

My original plan was to leave the tang as it is but I'm starting to think I might need to add some length. Does anyone else think I should add a threaded rod to the end of it? 

Edited October 15, 2015 by M Cochran

[T.J.watts]

its hard to tell from the pic but is there enough to draw the tang out? if not you could do a coffin joint or like you said add a piece of rod.

[Michael Cochran]

There is enough material to draw the tang out some. My biggest problem is setting a proper transition with my hammer. I need to build a guillotine to help me, I just haven't done it yet. When I get home I will try to measure it and I'll draw an outline of it showing the different measurements.

i will have to research a coffin join since I haven't a clue what that is.

I'm thinking that I'll put two pins through the bolster and blade and run one on each side of the blade from the front into the bolster and one pin in the handle. I think that should give adequate hold but I'm more accustomed to full tang knives so I'm not sure just how well that'll work.

Edited October 15, 2015 by M Cochran

[T.J.watts]

if you just need to set the tang evenly in the center then you could make a spring fuller with scrap rod. Bend a u and either put a block for the anvil to hold it or a piece of strap to hold in a vise. A whole lot quicker than making a guillotine tool. A coffin joint is basically adding a piece of metal that the tang will fit into to allow for a full tang. Steve's book explains it much better than me.

[Michael Cochran]

I saw somewhere talking about something like that but they called it a frame. Take a piece of whatever steel and cut it to fit the tang and the handle and then weld/solder the blade to it. Then treat it like a full tang. Sound about right?

ill have to give the spring fuller another go some time. The last one I made didn't work right and after repeated attempts to fix it on a 'I should've stayed in bed' kinda day I threw it across the shop and never bothered to look for it.

[T.J.watts]

Yes that's what I was referring to. I've had plenty of those days and plenty of those projects. I've seen some that instead of using a rod they used plates that hinged on bolts. I've tried the spring fullers myself with little luck but as long as they've been around there has to be a way of using them that eludes me.

[Michael Cochran]

I know just what you mean. The one I made looked great and moved wonderfully under the hammer. Soon as you put hot stock in it it was a different thing. It fullered where I wanted on one side but not the other I quit after fiddlin with it for a couple hours.

ok I made it home and made measurements like I said I would and attached the traced outline with the measurements noted.

 

[jwilson645]

Good looking knife, Mike!

[cliffrat]

I saw somewhere talking about something like that but they called it a frame. Take a piece of whatever steel and cut it to fit the tang and the handle and then weld/solder the blade to it. Then treat it like a full tang. Sound about right?

A frame handle is a little different than that, but it is another good way to fit a handle around the tang. In a frame handle design, the handle is made and completed off of the knife as a separate element. The tang is shaped more like a triangle with the point cut off, centered on the back of the ricasso. Here is a small dagger I'm making with a frame handle of 416 SS frame and bone scales. The first pic shows it dismantled (mostly). The frame is cut out to fit around the tang and is pinned to one of the bone scales. The guard and spacer package are in rough form waiting to be shaped to the finished handle. Once all of the parts are shaped, sanded and finished, the knife will be assembled and glued together.

For some reason the photos got reversed.

 

 

 

Edited October 17, 2015 by cliffrat

[Michael Cochran]

Ok, I understand that but I have a question. I reread to make sure I didn't miss it, how do you keep the tang attached to the frame? I don't trust epoxy alone, I know it's capable of holding quite a bit but I prefer it as a back up to some kind of mechanical hold.

Good looking knife, Mike!

thanks, Josh.

[cliffrat]

I haven't drilled the fifth hole in the handle scales yet, and it's difficult to see it, but it's in the tang. There is a final pin that goes through the handle and the tang to act as a mechanical connection. Also, the tang and inside edge of the frame will be notched with a grinder to create an uneven surface. Epoxy doesn't like sticking to smooth surfaces. Putting notches along the length of the tang and the frame locks the tang in better than just trying to glue it in.

[Michael Cochran]

Gotcha, cliff, thanks for the clarification.

i lost my last attempt at an update so here goes another shot.

i found my handle material and cut it to a rough block. It came from an old hickory axe handle. Now I'm looking for ideas for my bolster and not finding anythin in my shop large enough to make one. I thought about taking some plumbing solder and casting it to a rough shape then I started thinking about other stuff I can cast. I have scraps of aluminum and copper wire, spent rifle cartridges, misc small brass scraps. Whatever I use I'll do the melt outside.

im just now starting to do the 'design' sketches since I work backwards. But I would appreciate any suggestions for the bolster material.

[T.J.watts]

Cliff what exactly is the point in a frame or coffin joint. Is it just for esthetics or it there another purpose.

[Forging Carver]

I am not a pro smith, but I do love and collect knives. The knife came out so nice i would use a nicer wood than hickory. I would go with maple, desert ironwood, bone, or antler. Plain hickory is too plain for me because it doesn't make your knife as special. Hope this helps.

 

[Michael Cochran]

I am not a pro smith, but I do love and collect knives. The knife came out so nice i would use a nicer wood than hickory. I would go with maple, desert ironwood, bone, or antler. Plain hickory is too plain for me because it doesn't make your knife as special. Hope this helps.

 

I agree there are plenty of good options for handle material but right now my options are limited. Currently in stock I have some red oak, black walnut, white oak, hickory, and some slabs I bought off eBay a couple years ago and don't recall what they are. They were yellow when I bought them but now the outsides have turned a brownish color. Most of the wood I have is better for full tang than a hidden tang do to the thickness. I might try a frame before I do a final fit up on the whole thing but for now I'm not really planning on it. I don't have any bone or antler but I'm hoping to harvest some this season if I have any luck.

[cliffrat]

A good question T.J. and I'm sorry, but I really don't know what a "coffin joint" is, so I cannot answer that portion. A frame handle, on the other hand is my preferred design choice for a number of reasons. I find it much easier to finish the handle off of the knife than try and assemble everything and then shape and sand the handle with the blade sticking out of it. (I usually end up nicking the blade with a disc or belt sander when I try that) Also, it allows for a number of embellishment options. The guard, spacers and frame are all platforms for file work, or patinas, or pattern welded material (Damascus or Mokume). Some folks have told me that a frame made with any metal is inherently stronger than just a wooden handle, but I can't say that is true, because I'm not a structural engineer and I haven't done or read any test data on the subject. I do enjoy the ability to create interesting elements anywhere I can in a knife. Adding a frame handle allows for the extra areas. Even if it's a simple one. 

[Forging Carver]

I agree there are plenty of good options for handle material but right now my options are limited. Currently in stock I have some red oak, black walnut, white oak, hickory, and some slabs I bought off eBay a couple years ago and don't recall what they are. They were yellow when I bought them but now the outsides have turned a brownish color. Most of the wood I have is better for full tang than a hidden tang do to the thickness. I might try a frame before I do a final fit up on the whole thing but for now I'm not really planning on it. I don't have any bone or antler but I'm hoping to harvest some this season if I have any luck.

You can make a frame handle with the thin wood like what cliffart said. Also, you can buy antler of of ebay cheap and a curved tine would look really cool for an edc. I have an old tine I used when I tried to flintknap which I got of a flintknapping website for $2. Not my knife its yours, so these are only suggestions. Hope this helps

[Michael Cochran]

You can make a frame handle with the thin wood like what cliffart said. Also, you can buy antler of of ebay cheap and a curved tine would look really cool for an edc. I have an old tine I used when I tried to flintknap which I got of a flintknapping website for $2. Not my knife its yours, so these are only suggestions. Hope this helps

I work in construction and I'm always climbing in and out of places where odd protrusions from me and my clothing can hang up. That being said antler just won't work for me. I might use it one day but not this one. I do appreciate your suggestion I don't mean to say it's not a good one, just not right for me.

[Forging Carver]

I work in construction and I'm always climbing in and out of places where odd protrusions from me and my clothing can hang up. That being said antler just won't work for me. I might use it one day but not this one. I do appreciate your suggestion I don't mean to say it's not a good one, just not right for me.

not a problem. Yeah now that you mention it antler will get hung up. I guess it comes down to first kind of coal and second kind of cool; those of you who watch nutnfancy know what I'm talking about. Glad I could help.

[T.J.watts]

Cliff, the first I read of a coffin joint was in Steve's book. I borrowed it so I can't look back to be sure but from what I understood its about the same thing but usually used for larger blades. Steve can you clarify this please. Are these all your blades Cliff? they are all very nicely done.

[cliffrat]

Yeah, those are all made by me. Thanks for the compliment T.J. I tried asking the great Google what a coffin joint was and came up with a bunch of stuff for a horse's hoof. Thanks Google, that was helpful. So then I tried "Coffin Joint + knife handle" and the first hit was one of Steve's posts on IFI. Knife making Class log 116. The photos for some reason I cannot access, but in reading (and re-reading) the post, it sounds like the same design, only I think he silver solders the frame to the tang and guard. Mabe you can access the pics. http://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/32385-knife-making-class-log-116-advanced-handle-ideas/

[cliffrat]

I agree there are plenty of good options for handle material but right now my options are limited. Currently in stock I have some red oak, black walnut, white oak, hickory, and some slabs I bought off eBay a couple years ago and don't recall what they are. They were yellow when I bought them but now the outsides have turned a brownish color. Most of the wood I have is better for full tang than a hidden tang do to the thickness. I might try a frame before I do a final fit up on the whole thing but for now I'm not really planning on it. I don't have any bone or antler but I'm hoping to harvest some this season if I have any luck.

Some of the black walnut might have some good grain, and the hickory too. That stuff that was yellow and is now kinda brown may be maple, which dyes pretty well. You can do interesting stuff with dyes or stains and "plain wood." Use a dark stain (like ebony) over the grainiest parts and lightly sand the surface so the only stuff colored is deep down. Then add a contract color (like driftwood which has some green/grey colors) lightly sand to create some light space, and finish off with a tan or brown, or even a orange (like osage). You might have to apply the dyes or stains with a small brush. You can get those at home improvement or hardware stores pretty cheaply. You can use this technique on smooth antler like elk. Another thing you can do with the thinner pieces is mortise out the center of two slabs to accept the tang and then glue & pin the two of them together around the tang. Sort of create a solid block sandwich handle.