WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Check out my Build a Gas Forge tutorial at the Forge Supplies page on my web-site at www.WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith.com.Let me know when I can help you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 I've been trying to find instructions on building oneA Book Gas burners for Forges, Furnaces & Kilns by Michael Porter Sold by Skipjack Press. is one good place to start. Another good place is to search this forum for Frosty T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bw94 Posted August 14, 2015 Author Share Posted August 14, 2015 A Book Gas burners for Forges, Furnaces & Kilns by Michael Porter Sold by Skipjack Press. is one good place to start. Another good place is to search this forum for Frosty T I've purchased this book, frostys t burner look like a lot simpler design Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 They are both workable designs. Frosty's design is simpler. More complicated means more flexible tune adjustments, but simpler means fewer errors in installation. Both are good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Sorry I'm late replying, I'm running amazingly short of time for a retired guy. I'm still editing my T build directions, I'm a naturally wordy guy and have been doing a lot of cutting to make it reasonable size and still cover the bases.No chokes on the T under normal conditions though some guys need more control of the atmosphere. Properly tuned a naturally aspirated burner's fuel air ratio is an almost flat curve at different gas pressures. Part of the reason I was messing with my burners recently was to make altering the ratio easier, that turned out to be more trouble than it's worth.The gas jet sizes are different according to tube size but I'm not good enough at mathematics to develop a formula. What I did was experiment till I got good jet sizes for the burner sizes I've made. They are as follows.1" burner = 0.045" mig tip.3/4" burner = 0.035" mig tip1/2" burner = 0.023" mig tip.The above jet sizes work well enough but may need adjustment. I tune my burners by trimming the mig contact tip length, the farther the tip is set back from the beginning to the burner tube the more air it entrains and the leaner the ratio. As you can see from pictures of other burner builds the set back can be very different but you'll also notice they are using a different air intake port design. The Porter design vs. Ron Reil's EZ, vs. Mike Hammer's design, vs. a T, vs. Side arm, vs. whatever someone comes up with. They all work and once you understand the basic mechanics you can make a surprising number of configurations produce a flame to your specs.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 With the side arm burner it is important to use a tapered tip. I had a student that had built a forge and his burner and it would not burn well. He had a common 1.5 X1.5X.75 T. I got him to get a Ward T (commonly used in sprinkler systems) . That helped but it still did not burn well. He was using a standard mig tip. I got him to get a Tweco T tip (t = tapered) and then everything worked well. Sometimes it can be very important to follow instructions closely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bw94 Posted August 15, 2015 Author Share Posted August 15, 2015 Thanks frosty, so would I use a 1/2x1/2x1/2 tee if I was making a 1/2 t burner, what length would the pipe need to be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 Thanks frosty, so would I use a 1/2x1/2x1/2 tee if I was making a 1/2 t burner, what length would the pipe need to be?No. You use a 3/4" x 1/2" T. The first number is the "run" the second is the "chase". In plumbing terms the run is the "line" or "supply" pipe. (the cross arms on the letter T) The chase is the line branching off the main supply line or "run," sometimes called a "drop."To make the air intakes breath easy you want them a little larger than the burner tube. I've made burners with the same size intakes as tube but had to use a smaller gas jet to get a neutral burn. Using larger air intakes lets me use a larger gas jet so it puts more fuel and air in the forge for more heat.Following the formula a 1/2" T burner needs: 1/2"x4" black iron nipple, a 3/4"x1/2" black iron T, brass fittings, drills, taps, etc. as usual and a 0.023" mig contact tip.Do NOT confuse the T with a Side Arm, they're the same in principle but two different builds, the ratios I use in a T will NOT work in a Side Arm. Think of it like using the right spark plugs in your car.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bw94 Posted August 15, 2015 Author Share Posted August 15, 2015 Thanks, I'going to start find the materials to build the burners Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bw94 Posted September 2, 2015 Author Share Posted September 2, 2015 We'll I started making the burners and I have a question about the length of the down tube, frosty says a 8"-9" works well for the 3/4 burner, I've seen pictures of others that are shorter and seem to work well, my question is what would be a good overall length for the down tube? And would I have to use a flare on the end of it? Thanks alot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wpearson Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 from Frosty post above Following the formula a 1/2" T burner needs: 1/2"x4" black iron nipple, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bw94 Posted September 3, 2015 Author Share Posted September 3, 2015 What about the 3/4 t burner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wpearson Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 3/4"x 6" black iron nipple, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 What about the 3/4 t burner The ratio to figure it out is tube diameter x 8. 3/4 x 8 = 6Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bw94 Posted September 3, 2015 Author Share Posted September 3, 2015 Ok, thanks I must have misread or this is a different burner, on the 6" nipple do u leave the threads on or cut down to 6"? And on the mig tips, are they tapered tweeco? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bw94 Posted September 5, 2015 Author Share Posted September 5, 2015 Alright, here's my plan. I plan on cutting down the forge from 18" length to 14" and adding a 4" pass thru hole in the back of the forge for longer material. I figured out with the 2" of blanket it would take it to 6"x10, that should put me at around 300 cu", not sure if I'm gonna use 1/2" t burner or a 3/4" t burner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 If you're making a 3/4" burner 6"-7" is fine, threads on the output end don't matter.A 6"x10", 300cu/in forge is in the range a 3/4" burner will heat nicely. TWO 1/2" burners are roughly the same BTU output and you can space them so the chamber is more evenly heated.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bw94 Posted September 6, 2015 Author Share Posted September 6, 2015 Do u think it would be ok to run 2 3/4 t burners and run them at a lower psi, or should I run 2 1/2 T burners? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 Do u think it would be ok to run 2 3/4 t burners and run them at a lower psi, or should I run 2 1/2 T burners?Why do you want to experiment with mature technology? Blacksmiths have been building and using these things since gas lights lit streets in cities 120+ years ago. U Rnt going to figure out something good unless U nu enough U wouldn't need to ask the question.Just follow the directions and do what works for everybody else. I'm a curmugeonly old fart please write like you passed an English class if you want my help.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bw94 Posted September 6, 2015 Author Share Posted September 6, 2015 (edited) Your right Frosty, there's no need in experimenting with a proven design, I'm gonna stick with two 1/2" T burners. Sorry for the abbreviations and lack of knowledge. This is my first attempt at building a gas forge, I just want to get it right. Thanks Edited September 6, 2015 by bw94 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 Your right Frosty, there's no need in experimenting with a proven design, I'm gonna stick with two 1/2" T burners. Sorry for the abbreviations and lack of knowledge. This is my first attempt at building a gas forge, I just want to get it right. ThanksS'okay, I was in a mood is all. It's a curmudgeon thing. Never apologize for a lack of knowledge, admitting it is a positive personality trait. Wanting to get things right is a good thing too. I hang here to spread some of what I've learned around. I spread bad jokes and long rambly missives too but I try to make up for it.If an apology is due it's mine, there was no need to take out my aggravation on you, I don't even know what's on my nerves sometimes. I'm glad to be of what help I can. Give me a shout, I'll get back.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Just remember, Frosty is just trying to fill the void left by Grant! I sure do miss that guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 That's well out of my grasp Wayne. I don't know who could fill his shoes.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cranky Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 (edited) Frosty I personally think your doing a great job spreading your knowledge, and seeing as you have answered that very same question to me in the last week it must get old being asked the same old questions everyday. I guess what I am seeing on IFI is all newbies think alike(darn it I like to be different). If a 10" pipe makes a good forge than 36" has gotta be way cooler.....I'm gonna improve upon the simple burner and make it better....(even tho I have never made one before) if 9" is a good length than 24" must be way better......and the killer thought.....I watched a 1 hour tv show a few times, I know as much as these idiots that have been doing it for 10, 20,30 years I guess what I want to say is, Thank You Frosty and also wayne, thor, and and everyone else that share your hard earned knowledge with us newbies I for one really appreciate it. Edited September 8, 2015 by cranky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorsHammer82 Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 What most people today forget is that this tech has been noodled over and modified by far greater minds than their own for a millennia. (Maybe not the gas forge part, but still)Men who had the forethought to imagine it could be done and do it even though many around them said it was impossible. Theses men forged (pun intended) the way for us numbskulls to come along and think that we can improve upon it.Every now and then someone can have a spark of genius and come up with something that works, or works better. but for the most part, What we are trying to learn/modify has already reached it's peak. And really the only thing left to improve upon is ones own skills and technique.Sure a new tool can come along that can be adapted to be used with Black smithing. Power hammers, pneumatics, gas forges all come to mind. but in the end, the one in charge of the hammer is the real factor that matters.Sure a more efficient forge will heat a piece of metal faster, but it can't turn it into something beautiful. An anvil and hammer can change the shape of the metal, but it cannot make it functional. There are thousands of Blacksmiths who have made far more beautiful things than you or I, but they have had a fraction of the technology and far harder tools to use than you or I. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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