Vito Posted July 1, 2015 Author Share Posted July 1, 2015 Charles thanks for reply.I think that you slightly misunderstood my dilemma. I don't intend on finishing the job after just 2 passes of 7018. 7018 passes are there just to ''prepare'' the surface for hardfacing. On top of that ''buttering layer'' comes the ''real'' hardfacing with appropriate rods (impact and abrasion resistant rods). Manufacturer claims that one should achieve hardness of aprox. 57-62HRC which should be more than hard enough. All my hammers are around 55HRC.Thanks again and all the best, Vito Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vito Posted July 1, 2015 Author Share Posted July 1, 2015 Frosty, I used 7018 rods because I had them on hand (full batch of freshly baked ones and because I've seen welders use that rod for buttering before. Also, there's a guy on youtube (can't remember his name) who used 7018's as a go-to build up rod. I do have a local manufacturer of welding rods and other welding consumables so I gave them a call; I described my intentions and they recommended me a hard-facing rod which should hold up (used for hardfacing ''spoons'' of dozers and ''earth eaters'') as they claim that this rod holds up against abrasion as well as impacts.Here the quote of the description of that particular rod:''Classification:DIN 8555: E 6-UM-60Description and application:Electrode is used for surfacing of steel parts when heavy impact resistance is needed. Welding material posses higher abrasion resistance. Suitable for surfacing parts exposed to heavy abrasive wear by stone, coal, sand etc The weld metal can be treated with grinding and cut after soft annealing. '' As for preheat, I always preheat when I do a lot of important welding...I can literaly SEE the moisture and ''condensation moisture'' disappearing as the base gets hotter. And I certainly don't want that moisture to roam inside my weld. And, as you've mentioned, it helps slow down cooling rate and minimizes the risks of warpage. WIN WIN WIN Thanks frosty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Lots of "welders" use 7018 for everything but there are products designed as underlayment for hard facing. The problem with using "soft" rod under hard facing, ESPECIALLY in impact situations is it WILL move when you hit it. The hardfacing isn't very flexible and needs a surface under it that isn't going to move or it WILL check.For an exaggerated example lay a piece of pane glass on a clean table top. Now put your finger in the center and press down. This represents hard facing on a hard underlayment. Now place the same pane of glass on a piece of foam rubber and press in the center CAREFULLY! The glass breaks. While it's not a perfect analogy this the same physics as hard facing on a soft underlayment and YES, 7018 is pretty malleable, hit it with a hammer and watch it move cold.Buttering is not the same thing as underlaying. Buttering is using a rod that will work on the parent stock you wish to weld on, say cast iron. The butter rod then can be welded to with the rod that actually joins the parts. THAT is buttering.Underlaying or building up for hard facing is preparing the sub surface to resist the conditions you are using hard facing rod to survive. Build up rod is hard but doesn't work harden and provides a sub surface that won't move, dent or break under repeated impacts so the hard facing can do it's job and laugh at rocks and hammers.I know this is a typically LONG Frosty post but we sat in a class for about 5 hours listening to the instructor, watched videos and read the books before we got to go burn rod. Proper hard facing isn't a grab some rod and burn it in. It does NOT work that way and you want it right. Yes?Talk to the people at the local welding supply, they'll line you out with the right rods IF you know what to ask for. I can't tell you what's available to you but I guarantee shops are hard facing machinery close enough to have the right rods available. Buy the minimum, here it's 10lbs. say 4-5kg. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Good info, Frosty! Thanks for sharing! Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo T Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 This is interesting as I would like to learn to do a little welding down the road. So from what I gather, to do it right, for any anvil not just Vitos) involves 5 steps; clean and prep the surface, butter areas of serious damage or in need of build up, put on the underlayers, put on the shock/impact resistant layer, and finish the surface so it is useable? So far I have (based on Frosty's suggestions 30# of rod and a lot of time) and some super CBN belts. I just saw a Hay Budden where the top plate was for all practical purposes, non existant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Close Bo but not quite. "Buttering" is preparing a metal to be welded that doesn't normally weld. Typically dissimilar metals. Cast iron for instance, it requires special rods that may NOT weld to what you want to attach to the casting. So, you lay a layer of say nickle rod on the cast iron. The rod you're going to weld the widget flange to the casting is steel so 7018 is a good choice. 7018 is compatible with THIS nickle rod (because you CHECKED first) and you have a good chance for a competent weld. The nickle rod is the "butter" rod.Is that more clear?If you're just building up the HC face on an anvil because it's thin you may be able to go strait to a steel on stone hard facing rod as the existing face is rigid enough to keep the HF from checking.If on the other hand the remaining face is say 1/4" thick and dishing rather than wearing thin you'll want to build it up. Build up rod is made for this, running stringer beads on HC steel is it's meat and drink.Pre and post heat as required, read the information sheets on the rods and factor for the application.Glad to be able to pass some of this stuff on Scott, I spent too many hours in classes and hard facing drill steel to not want to share the pain. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vito Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 Why I can't post? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vito Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 It keeps saying forbidden....what's forbidden?I can't post replies longer than 2minutes worth of writing.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Compose in Word, Notepad, OpenOffice Writer, WordPad, etc Then cut and paste here. Gotta love seamless posting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Most of us are running into that issue from time to time. I figure it's to keep us humble... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Vito: the Forbidden error message you're getting is a fault with the new platform and we're all running into it, even Admin. I've started copying my replies before submitting them. That way if I get forbidden and bounce I leave the thread, read another post or two then return, paste my reply and hit submit quickly. That usually works but it seems there are a couple threads I'm stuck on "Forbidden" and have given up posting in them. Glenn, the forum owner is writing in another word processor like Scott suggests and pasting to get through.If it persists for you, you might have to just start a new thread, we'll meet you there and continue the subject. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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