Vito

Frosty thanks, report how it goes Timgunn, I will check the suppliers you have mentioned. One more thing; do you guys think that coating ceramic blanket with a thin layer of refractory prior to coating it with something reflective, would decrease forge efficiency? I'm suspicious on refractory sucking up heat... that would probably be minimal? Thank you and all the best, Vito

Banan thanks for an idea but I've checked your page out and I can't speak your language...what is that? Polish, Czech? We started with naturally aspirated burners...? So you're basically saying that naturally aspirated burners are inefficient and not economical? Or have I got this wrong? Best, Vito

tim thanks for answering, will take your advice in consideration. ...offcourse you prefer the commercial rigidizer...so would I but I can't find one in the EU area of the globe....frustrating. Best, Vito

I'm forced on starting new threads with the same subjects due to forum problems, which someone should solve. PROMPTLY. it's really frustrating, not being able to post anything...somebody take care of it. I've already lost about 6 posts, together worth 1 hour of writing... anyhow, here's a reply to frosty from previous thread... Yes Frosty but what are you using currently to liquify the mix and make it workable, so you can spread it on? Water? Actually, could you please explain why use zirconium silicate in the first place? It doesn't want to dissolve in the mix, it doesn't vitrify under ''our'' use, why is it there then? And also, shouldn't the kaolin act as a binder and the matrix for the zirconium? Afterall, kaolin will vitrify under the temperatures which we use. Why just not use more kaolin instead of using more zirconium? Something like 75% kaolin and 25%zirconium+water until you make it very thin? What makes zirconium so invaluable in that mix? Thank you for clearing things up, I appreciate your answers and your help that you're willing to share.

and again I cant post....this is getting a bit tiring, really...

I'm sorry, I have re-read my post and noticed how wrong that question sounded (about ''being worth'' of the asking price). I'm truly, honestly sorry. It wont repeat again. Although I didn't mean nothing bad when I was asking it. Thanks for understanding. Best, Vito

Yes, I have predicted that would be an issue. The final firing chamber should end up at about 10-11inches in length, with a 8'' diameter (2r) Sorry for letting that exact measurements out.

Hello everyone, I'm just about to purchase some kaolin china clay and zirconium silicate from ebay to lay some fibers down Now, I've been through all the lining threads and have collected some valuable knowledge and information, although I have never seen quantity numbers written. I'm not interested in ratios but quantities of each individual powder in order for the brew to work. I've seen that Frosty exposed a ratio of 70:30 of which the 70 part is zirconium silicate. BUT Frosty also noted that the mix doesn't fire up like he expected to. I can imagine that zirconium silicate won't fire because we won't reach anywhere near that kind of temp in our forges but kaolin should, shouldn't it? Also, I haven't noticed what you guys use to bond these two powders and turn the brew into a ''managable'' form which can be applied onto wool. Is anything wrong if I use sodium silicate to liquify the mix instead of water? I'd imagine that it should be even better than it would be if we used water (besides maybe making it more ''sensitive'' to caustic fluxes?). I intend to first soak the wool with sodium silicate (it shouldn't penetrate more than quarter of an inch I'd imagine as that stuff is quite thick) and after it dries and hardens, apply that brew on top of it. Now, to clarify my point a little bit: I'm interested in: -what you guys think about my plan, -how much (by weight) of each individual powder do I need to make a mix which will suffice for lining one ''medium'' sized forge. Thank you very much. And again, I apologize upfront for maybe missing something out and asking it all over again. All the best, Vito

Frosty, I can completely relate to that Ok, so now I'm getting there (length wise and height wise) Frosty, to which burner of theirs are you reffering to exactly? They have quite a few burners on disposal. Is it one of their DF burners, DFC, DFPROF? Here's a video that you may be interested in...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqcPJEAl2-E ...what do you think? Is it worth 150 USD? Well, if it helps, why not do it if I can...:) Thank you for all your advices All the best, Vito

Ronin, thanks for explanation, will definately need to take that in consideration as this was not the first time. Oh ok, so I got the length figured out...I suppose Thanks.

One more thing basher...my interest for cilindrical forges (SWIRLING) comes from wish for (more) equal heat distribution. Everytime I see a burner positioned directly vertical over the workpiece, I can see localised ''heat spots''...on the other hand; when I see a swirl, the whole workpiece is about the same temperature (and color) as the whole forge is. Maybe that's due to bad choice of appropriate burners but anyway, I don't see that with round forges that have burners positioned in a way which enables the fire to swirl it's way around the lining and therefore dissabling localised heat. Just some of my thoughts though... Best, Vito

basher, thanks for that food for thought Just one thing...what's fibre board? Simply ceramic fibre with higher density, which makes them look and manipulate like boards instead of ''blanket-like-behaviour? Thomas...so you're saying that I should build a forge that's about 4-5'' long? Haven't seen one like it so far...or maybe I should just build a soup can forge and call it a day? I think that you know what I was trying to ask and there's simply no need to get sarcastic on me; I wasn't when I asked the question. Thank you anyways for being my Heyoka Best, Vito

Thanks. The length of the forge is not set in stone offcourse, as I've already mentioned; I'm sensing upfront that 18'' of length is an overkill for one burner, even if ''swirling'' the fire. It'll just consume too much fuel to get to working temperature and to sustain that temperature. Somebody can offcourse propose an ''ideal'' measurements for my intended purpose (I know that there's no ''forge that does it all'') Yes, 2 inches is the recommended thickness but I can't get a hold of that thickness, I'll have to deal with what I can get and lay one layer on top of the another to get 2'' of insulation. I intend to lay a matching piece of hard firebrick on the floor, not fixing it. When it gets ''corroded'' and eaten away enough, I can just replace it, I have plenty. Yes, I know the temp. rating for the wool; supplier claims it should sustain temperatures from 1000-1200 celsius for long periods of time, without any damage. You don't have to work on metric measurements, I can convert them myself, work with what suits you most Thank you and all the best, Vito

Hello everyone. Let me first clarify WHY I am starting a new thread on this subject. I always read as much as I could BEFORE I asked question were already answered, therefore, I always tried to avoid asking things that have already been answered. I tried the same this time, many times, but it seems that I'm cursed by the digital demon of this forum...I can't open any threads of the stickies, can't open any threads in references...nothing...XXXX , I'm even scared If I'll be able to post this thread...:( I have been through the simmiliar threads, none of which exactly answerd my specific questions. What I have conclued this time, is this: Will do planning BEFORE actually doing it. Here's my plan: I intend to do a cilindrically shaped gas forge. Basically, I have two ''pipes'' laying around, of which dimensions are: 19.7'' long, 11.8''diameter 7mm thick steel Both ends opened. 1) Let me ask my first ask if I'm thinking in the right direction; I choose the cilindrical shape because of the possibility of the ''swirling effect'' which should distribute the heat more evenly(and reduce wear of the bottom base) and because I already have the pipes. Now, do you think that for some reason a square shapped forge would be somewhat supperior to cilindrical shape? Or maybe the opposite? Or it just simply doesn't matter (besides the possibility of the swirl effect, which a round shape allows)? 2) Another thing which seems incredibly important to me is: Is there some kind of a formula, which would enable me how much volume should the chamber have, regarding to the burner's BTU? I intend to buy a burner, of which link I've pasted below. It's a ''Devil's forge'' ''DFP'' burner and they claim that it spits out gas with 92,363 BTU's on 25PSI. How I can use that data to calculate maximum efficiency of the forge, regarding the volume, while on the other hand still being able to sustain a reducing atmosphere, if needed. ebay url removed 3) Ceramic wool (no, we don't have Kaowool here in Slovenia...)...I talked to local suppliers of such materials and the only thickness I can get is 1''. Do you think that 1'' is insufficient? Even if I line it with two layers one on top of each other? Also the density isn't the maximum one (it's 128kg/cubic metre); anything wrong with that? I suppose that density only contributes to higher wear resistance and ''firmness'' of the material? But I could probably compensate that lack of density with heavy rigidizing of the lining, correct? 4) How does positioning of the burner nozzle affects the swirl effect and is there an exact position or angle, which I should take in consideration when positioning the nozzle? 5) Are my dimensions an overkill? (Yes I know, you want to know what I'm intending to do with it, right?) Here are my main ''fields of work'' when I use forges: bladesmithing(I'm getting really close to becoming a full time bladesmith and knifemaker) and some ''general blacksmithing'' such as making various cutting tools for a specific job, etc. The reason I don't want to buy a ''pre-made'' gas forge is simply because I like tinkering and I enjoy using ''tools and hardware'' that I produce on my own. And please excuse my poor English but I have sensed that many of you considered me being a ''rookie'' just because I don't know proper ENGLISH terms and expressions for certain things and I therefore explain things in my own way and it offcourse sounds wrong in the end. One of you said it nicely: lack of ''proper'' vocabulary in a foreign language does not necessarilly mean lack of skills. Thank you and all the best, Vito EDIT: I'm sorry but I got the inches wrong... Here are the real intended measurements: Length: 15'' Dia: 11'' (outer shell) minus 2'' for ceramic wool.

It keeps saying forbidden....what's forbidden? I can't post replies longer than 2minutes worth of writing....

Why I can't post?

Frosty, I used 7018 rods because I had them on hand (full batch of freshly baked ones and because I've seen welders use that rod for buttering before. Also, there's a guy on youtube (can't remember his name) who used 7018's as a go-to build up rod. I do have a local manufacturer of welding rods and other welding consumables so I gave them a call; I described my intentions and they recommended me a hard-facing rod which should hold up (used for hardfacing ''spoons'' of dozers and ''earth eaters'') as they claim that this rod holds up against abrasion as well as impacts. Here the quote of the description of that particular rod: '' Classification:DIN 8555: E 6-UM-60Description and application:Electrode is used for surfacing of steel parts when heavy impact resistance is needed. Welding material posses higher abrasion resistance. Suitable for surfacing parts exposed to heavy abrasive wear by stone, coal, sand etc The weld metal can be treated with grinding and cut after soft annealing. '' As for preheat, I always preheat when I do a lot of important welding...I can literaly SEE the moisture and ''condensation moisture'' disappearing as the base gets hotter. And I certainly don't want that moisture to roam inside my weld. And, as you've mentioned, it helps slow down cooling rate and minimizes the risks of warpage. WIN WIN WIN Thanks frosty.

Charles thanks for reply. I think that you slightly misunderstood my dilemma. I don't intend on finishing the job after just 2 passes of 7018. 7018 passes are there just to ''prepare'' the surface for hardfacing. On top of that ''buttering layer'' comes the ''real'' hardfacing with appropriate rods (impact and abrasion resistant rods). Manufacturer claims that one should achieve hardness of aprox. 57-62HRC which should be more than hard enough. All my hammers are around 55HRC. Thanks again and all the best, Vito

Charles thanks. I have also considered H11 as well but in the end I have opted for hard surfacing with appropriate rods. I have already welded the buttering layer but I'm not sure if one layer is enough. I've welded the buttering layer with 7018 rods (2.5mm wire) and I'm planning on doing another layer in the opposite direction, just to ensure uniform thickness of the buttering layer across the surface. Do you think that's a good idea, or I should just leave one layer of that 7018 beads before hardsurfacing? Thank you and all the best, Vito

Charles what steel are you referring to? Which steel tempers to 54HRC at 1000F? Sounds like 1045? Sorry, I ''lost the thread'' Thank you and all the best, Vito

Good, but I think that going a bit hotter shouldn't be a problem, correct? If you can, I would like to ask you to check this with your welder friend, I would appreciate that. In the meantime, I'll ask in the local ''weldingshop'' and the rod manufacturer. Thanks Charles, Best, Vito

Charles, I'll probably do a test piece of same thickness material first and see how it goes from there. The only thing I'm worried about is interpass temperatures/time. Do you think that 300-320 celsius would be a sensible temperature to use for preheat? As for interpass temperatures I was thinking of waiting till it drops to 500celsius before next weld. What do you think? Dodge, nice anvil. Sure you're happy to use it. Thanks and all the best, Vito

Charles yes, but now you (all the replying members) have reminded me that maybe welding a plate on, really isn't the best idea. And that way all of you helped me out solving a problem and I thank all of you for it. Will try to get some pictures of the proces going and post it, if I make it (much commisions in regards to knifemaking lately) because I'm not sure how long will that take for me to acomplish. That also the main reason I'm not present most of the time on this forum. But things are turning out very good in the knifemaking business area lately so I'm happy but it takes most of my time also. Anyway, thank you again. All the best, Vito

Another thing I forgot to mention in regard to Frosty's reply: I already have done that before (perimeter welding a piece of hardened and tempered steel on top of a mild steel to create a ''mini anvil'' for peening purposes. The temper did NOT get affected as much to make it too soft and the rebound was aprox. 75%. I'm still using it. Best, Vito

Dodge, thank you for that contributive answer. Yes, I am aware of the grinding but not worried about it as I machine all the surfaces that I want flat anyway (I'm not a believer of ''angle-grinder-flat'' surfaces). Yes, I will probably hardface the surface and then machine it flat. Actually I am interested yes, I will search for it:) Thanks Dodge