A " Fishing " knife

[Malice9610]

So this isnt totally done, needs an edge and some final polish work done, but I figured I would post a pic of it now as I do have a couple questions. 

The handle is Brass, Copper, and Hickory. I have put 2 coats of boiled linseed oil on this, and am curious as to how many coats of linseed would be " enough " or is there a way to tell when you are wasting the stuff trying to put more on?  I sanded this up to 1200 grit and its nice and smooth, but plan to sand the brass parts carefully up to 2000 grit and then hit them with some buffing compound and and cloth wheel.  And any recommendations on treatment after the linseed oil is fully dry, or just leave it as is?

Blade is O1, has a hidden tang all the way into the last piece of wood at the end of the handle, At the moment all of the O1 knives I can make have been quite narrow blades, this is due to the fact I have 1/2 inch stock, and newb hammering skills. Its also the first time I have really gotten a good clean grind line on a flat grind that I felt comfortable leaving, I plan to sand the entire knife up to 2000 grit and then compound and cloth wheel it. 

The fit on the copper pieces could be better, you can see some dark spots where there was a gap that was filled by the epoxy, but the copper came from a length of 1/2 inch copper pipe I cut long ways and then cold hammered " flat " and the cuts on the wood were not by any means perfect either. but considering the number of pieces I am actually surprised it fit together as well as it did, I did try my best to get the fit as close to square as possible, but im new at this and have yet to learn all the tricks to this addiction.

Next one I do like this, I am going to do Brass, Copper, Wood, Copper, Brass instead of having the second brass piece at the end, I like it, but I think it would look better if the second piece of brass were at the middle instead of the end. 

[Frosty]

Bear in mine I'm not a bladesmith guy but I have one issue with this knife. Without a finger guard (bolster?) it'd be entirely TOO EASY for your hand to slip down the blade and cut yourself badly. One slip could mean a serous disability. For that reason alone I'd have to blunt it to hang it on the wall, somebody might take it down for a look or to try it out.

The rest of the work looks good, it only needs a little more finishing. The furniture seems pretty tight and well fitted. All in all a pretty good early knife.

Frosty The Lucky.

 

[Malice9610]

Well the design is based on a Puukko, which is even scarier as it lacks a ricasso and the edge goes right up to the handle material and they have similarly done handles.  The photos dont show it well, but the bottom end of the handle actually has a slight taper to it where the first piece of brass is slightly wider then the copper which is slightly wider then the wood, its a very slight difference in size, as I was limited to how much I could taper it due to the width of the tang, but that is also why I left the hump on the back end of it and it tapers the way it does, I am also considering doing some jimping or filework on the spine of the knife right at before the handle to increase the grip on the knife as you do have a very valid concern with the risk of injury. 

[Malice9610]

As I said, the difference is very slight. but there is a slight taper right after the brass. 

[Charles R. Stevens]

Frosty

Some juristiction the "guard" is the difference in "tool" and "weapon" but thats pretty old style of "tool" tho usualy the blade is shorter than the handle. Traditinaly you would hold the hilt in your "fist" as aposed to your "hand"

[Malice9610]

Yeah, the blade is quite a bit longer then the traditional Puukko, I figured I would use it as a handle practice as my wood handle skills are sub par at best. I didnt want to ruin the heat treat on it to shorten it down, however I have a couple more blades from the O1 stock I have that are much closer to the traditional puukko length, those ones are going to be done as close to traditional puukko as I can get them as they are still scale covered and have yet to even be ground, those ones will get the traditional diamond cross section and no ricasso. 

I just measured it, the blade is exactly 5 1/4 inch long, so technically it is a bit long for a Puukko, but a bit short for a Leuku which is the identical big brother of the puukko. 
 

[Charles R. Stevens]

Nice looking knife all together, i would cary one. 

[Malice9610]

Thank you Charles, Complements such as that from one so much more experienced in this then myself tell me I am on the right track. 

And thank you Frosty as well, Between you and Charles and Thomas, you guys have proven time and time again that all the reading in the world cant measure up to real world experience, which you gents all have in spades over me. 

[Charles R. Stevens]

Oh no, like Frosty, I'm a knife user (and abuser) only dabbled in the black arts of knife making. My expertice as to knives comes from using them. I have rehandled a few, I have re grount a few (broken tips or funky blade shapre that didnt do me any good) I have made a few "edged tools" and a few wall hangers and props. Nothing I would dare call a knife! I dare say that the temptation is geting very strong tho. 

[Frosty]

Oh goodness Charles he thinks I'm doing something other than providing examples of why Blacksmithing and Bull . . . Shooting have the same abbreviation!

I've only ever made a couple knives sort of knives really. They'd take an edge but nothing I used more than just to prove they'd . . . work.

There's a trick I do all the time. I do a quick overall scan of everything, especially machinery, tools, rooms I enter, parking lots, etc. When you do a fast overall scan things that are wrong will jump out at you. Where if you start out doing a fine examination you miss things or get hung up on something that might not mean anything.

It's a trick a pilot told me about doing a walk around before flying and I didn't realize I do it anyway.

So, the very first thing that came into focus is the lack of some kind of stop to keep my hand from sliding off the handle and down the blade. It took me a few seconds to figure out what was wrong but my focus was on that point till I figured it out.

The thing that draws your eye may not really mean anything but the out of place or order draws the eye.

It's a learned tool, nothing special, useful but not special.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Malice9610]

You both may not realize it, but even though you both say " I dont make knives " you both heat metal up and shape it. and there is where your experience far outshines mine. 

Dont sell yourselves short, You both may not " Dabble in the dark arts " but I am sure if you two decided to do so, your work would likely far outshine mine. 

 

[Jeddly]

Thats a cool looking knife for sure. I like the handle. Might I suggest buffing the metal parts pre-assembly? Reason I mention is that i tried buffing some walnut/maple with the green compound, and it got imbedded into the grain of the wood. Tinted the handle green. Maybe I did it wrong, but I would try buffing a piece of scrap wood first.

[Malice9610]

Part of being a newb to this, is figuring out the best way to assemble all this stuff. 

With that being the case, ill tape the handle up before i attempt to buff out the brass, Thanks Jeddly for the heads up on that.

 

[Charles R. Stevens]

Shaping hot metal is more plane stubern perserverance on my part, lol. Bash enugh steel into somthing that resembles a horseshoe and you get kind of fast, get fast and then you start figuring out how to move it fast with out working so hard. Keep stringing those things along, then yiu stop having to think about it and you can start experimenting with different techniches. It certainly helps when some one keeps you from developing bad habbits and shies you the most effecent way they know of the bat, but otherwise its a lot off batterd peices of steel untile you start making sonthing that dosnt look like a moon rock. 

[Malice9610]

I think either all of my friends are alcoholics, or there is a much larger demand for " lime slicers " then anyone anticipated. 

My friend stopped by last night, and saw this right after I finished coating the handle in linseed, and loved it. and then earlier today, he texted me and told me he must have it for general kitchen use such as eating steak and slicing limes. 

His dad is who got the very first knife I ever finished, and he has reported that the knife excels at lime slicing and general bar usage. 

It would seem I have found a niche I am good at, I make good bar knives it seems. 

[Frosty]

This part of the thread lends itself well to what I and others have told new comers who want to learn blacksmithing by making a sword. I know, that's a tired old cliche but it lives on. What is most often the advice some take such offense to is to learn to forge steel then learn to make blades.

Bladesmithing is a specialized type of blacksmithing and it's best to learn the basics before specializing or risk learning to be no more than a one trick pony. And no, I certainly don't think there's any justification to the tendency of bladesmiths, well some of them, to look down their noses towards stock removal makers, "grinder jockeys." Once the forging is done it's time to saddle up the grinder and mount up. A few, VERY few use only hand tools to forge and finish blades and most of them I've known can't pay for the privledge let alone a mortgage selling blades.

Our products whatever they are aren't worth what we want, it's worth what we can sell it for. If any educating needs to be done, it isn't the public that needs it. Sure they appreciate the worth of quality hand made work but most often it's the guys doing the work that need some education. I don't know how many times I've heard someone brag about not even having electricity in their shop. Then moan about not being able to make minimum wage for their product. They actually seem to expect folk to pay them for doing things in as inefficient a manner as possible. BAH! The true spirit of the blacksmith is wearing a sports coat, sitting in an air conditioned booth sipping a Jolt Cola and monitoring the forges on a computer screen.

Faster, Better, Easier, cheaper, is the ancient mantra of true smiths since humanoids discovered those pretty red "rocks" didn't break if you hit something with them and then discovered you could hammer them into a knife that didn't chip and break. Improve any one part of the mantra means more profit and it's profit that pays the bills and a little luxury.

Okay, back to your thinking some of us old farts know some secret or such. Naw, we only have two secrets: First we know when we don't know enough and start paying close attention to our mistakes and failures. The other is learn from other folks' mistakes.

Charles is a farrier, another specialized form of blacksmithing but more importantly to the gang here he's a past master of the basics. Knowing the basics lets us make more educated guesses when presented with something new. It only LOOKS like we know how to do so many things, it's just that at a certain level the similarities make all things the same except the details. Of course perfection is in the fiddly bits.

So, no I'm not a bladesmith but can I make blades? Oh you bet I can but I'd be starting much higher on the learning curve, well on the far downslope side. Will my first attempt be a master piece? Hardly. Functional? You betcha. Heck, I keep feeling the dark side calling and I have a pile of commercial bandsaw blades, an old misery whip I bought for making kitchen knives 35 years ago, excellent welding flux and brand spanking new dies on my power hammer calling. Worse still I find myself getting caught up with a fellow who makes a practice of making bloomery iron! I've been sitting here for a couple days thinking of how to make a bloomery furnace the bloom would come out of easily without having to bust the furnace up to do it.

ARGHHHHHHHH!

Frosty The Lucky.

 

 

[Steve Sells]

Come to the dark side Frosty, we have better cookies anyway

[Frosty]

Come to the dark side Frosty, we have better cookies anyway

​Ah, thanks Steve I feel the pull lessening already. I knew you could do it!

Frosty The Lucky.

[Charles R. Stevens]

Yea, Jerry. A pile of files, lawnmower blades, truck springs, saw blades, harrow disks and such, lol i know the feeling, especialy when I destroy another dime store kinife. Seriusly afraid to invest in a real knife, besides if Steve and other knifemakers are like i suspect, they would draw and quarter me for bamaging one of their "babies"

[Frosty]

I haven't abused a knife in a long LONG time. Dad made me mow lawns and worse to buy a new one when I broke the Boy Scout knife he got me for Christmas. He was good about showing us how to do things, especially after he said. "NEVER do THIS! Here's how it's done." That's no joke I was going to give things a try anyway, especially if forbidden so he'd do his parental duty then tell me how to do it without killing myself or others.

Anyway, I only cut things with knives and tend to keep them scary sharp because he was right it's the dull knife that's most likely to cut you. Besides getting cut with a REALLY sharp knife doesn't hurt as much.

I'd buy a hand made knife if I didn't still have that 1963 Buck sheath knife and my FAR newer Old Timer Cattleman's in my pocket. How many knives does a boy need? Okay, not counting the kitchen, steak and table knives. You don't count the Leatherman and other multi things with knives do you? Swiss Army knives are okay I just don't own one.

On the other hand have you watched Alten Brown's "Feasting On Asphalt" and noticed the really beautiful pattern welded sheath knife he carries? Anybody here know who's blade it is?

Frosty The Lucky.

[Malice9610]

Yeah, I want to take on more " blacksmithing " type projects as well, there are things some people make that just blows my mind on how they were able to shape metal the way they did.  And plan to do more decor type stuff in the future, I want to make some leaves, been thinking a twisted S hook with a couple leaves sprouting out of it would look great on my deck.  I do plan to start more projects like that once I have more stock geared to that type of use, as right now my current stock consists of leaf springs, some O1 rod stock, and a TON of A36 1/4 inch rod. 

[Frosty]

You'll like 3/8" sq. and 1/2" sq. mild or A-36. I used to have first timers make a leaf finial coat hook but more and more I'm finding kids who have never used a hammer so I've had to change my beginner projects, sometimes to nails.

Here's a tip for doing a twist coat hook. Do the twist before the leaf or taper for the hook it makes the transition from twist to leaf and taper much smoother and cleaner. Finish pieces like this in order from the thick to thin. If you do the thin parts first they tend to burn up or melt off heating for the thick sections.

Oh okay, so that was TWO tips!

Frosty The Lucky.

[Malice9610]

ones ill keep in mind for sure when the time comes to start those projects. 

Thank you Frosty, This is why I love this site so much, there is so much to learn and so many people to learn new things from.

 

[Charles R. Stevens]

After descovering the "entry tool" quite literaly a prybar with an edge i havent been so hard on knives. 

[Frosty]

It was a HARD lesson, Dad bought me a Boy Scout sheath knife just before I joined cubs. I LOVED that knife but didn't listen to Dad or Mother for that matter about not prying with it. It's my first clear memory of how much you can believe what you see on TV. Batt Masterson (Pat Robertson?) used a sheath knife just like mine to pry open a crate of smuggled guns, going to the Indians I believe.

While as first time Cub scouts we weren't allowed to carry a sheath knife to meetings mine didn't last that long. I snapped the blade clean off trying to pry open a wooden crate in Dad's shop, I even used a cheater pipe, that darned box lid just wouldn't pry off.

I can still feel the shock and remember crying my eyes out. Dad's only comment was something like, "Told you not to pry with it." I don't recall it exactly but it was a justly deserved told you so. Mother was almost as sympathetic as Dad, less than none. The vision and feelings come on strong if I twist or pry even a cardboard box with a knife. I about went nuts the one time I tried shucking oysters.

Frosty The Lucky.