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I Forge Iron

Jet Turbine Style Mini Burner / Blower ?


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YES ! 

 

You read it Correctly I am Tinkering with a Mini Jet Turbine Blower style Propane / Gases Burner for a Forge . It is Not a new concept However just a Much Much smaller design with a few Electronic solenoids to control the flow of Fuel and Oxygen for Maximum Volume yet low pressure with high Heat out put. I have almost got the drawings done and a prototype done for testing .

 

What say ye as to its abilities and feasibility. Instead of 90 Min/seconds of heat up time I am hoping for instant thermal heat such as a "Thermal Rocket Engine" is Fired  .

 

Ret, Sgt. Robert D Yates

 

13 & On Forge  

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I think its a great idea. I have thought about making a burner with internal fins that would create a vortex (naturally aspirated) as the gas/ air moves through it and theoretically be able to run at lower psi/volume but its just an idea and will likely stay that way as I am not confident in toying with that kind of thing (if anyone here wants to take a shot, my thoughts are your thoughts).  I also don't play with wires because electricity scares me. Exited to see what results you get!

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I will Have Photos / Drawings up very soon and my notes as to how things work it has been a very long year and a half of work on this project so hang in there with me folks and join in the conversation and add your thought as to what you think the out come will be Pass or fail trump or tribulation ? I will share my work with the Community so everyone can see just has worked and just what did Not !

 

I have a few others that are in testing though the one that I am principally working with is the 12 1/2 in is Yes LPG and OX with a SS turbine in it . It currently runs very well at Idle between 1 to 3 psi and Forges Heats at 3 to 5 psi on a block 4 X 4 1 X 1/2 in 90 seconds in three different tests So far.

 

The thermodynamics of the Burner and the preliminary results are very promising. and showing Extremely Awesome Results. I am at about $19.50 US for a month to run the forge, That is 8 hours a day for 30 days.$19.50 is for about 20 LB of Propane for 100 LB of propane it is about $75.00

 

Ret, Sgt. Robert D Yates

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The amount of heat be it absolute temperature or BTU's /second is a factor of how much fuel:air you can put in the forge per second.

 

Inducing a vortex will help mixing the prop/air for a better burn. Propane acts a little odd in it behaves like a mist of droplets rather than a gas. It IS a gas but it behaves like fog. Add to that prop being heavier than air makes it not want to mix well. Inducing a vortex makes a big difference.

 

I'll be watching this thread, I'm all over new burner ideas if for no other reason than I like playing with fire.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

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I wish I had payed more attention to how they worked and not just how they came apart and went back together when I was in the service LOL But I'm with Frosty. I will be keeping tabs here ;)

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  • 4 weeks later...

I am in the Fine tuning stage of the project and making a few of them to test out "locally" currently to see just how they preform at different altitudes here In Tennessee. So I hope to have some reviews and Photos to post soon as this is well under way for others to try out very soon .

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Good to hear, I'm still watching in anticipation.

 

Vihalvor: Here's a thought for you. Build a methane generator and don't buy gas. Called anaerobic decomposition it's what a "septic" tank does to human waste. A compost system uses aerobic bacteria that require oxygen and turn organic materials into garden compost goodness with CO2 and water vapor as bye products. Anaerobic bacteria is killed by oxygen but turns organic materials into high quality fertilizer sludge in a wet process, the good thing re. this thread is the bye products, water vapor and methane.

 

The 3rd. world, India I think has some really slick systems that not only turn whatever organic waste they shove through the airlock into fertilizer but generate pressurized methane they use for cooking and heating. The tank is so simple it's a head slapper, I don't know why off the grid folk aren't using them here. I'll see if I can find a link online.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

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Those systems were in use in the USA last century as the people that ran sewage systems collected methane and then ran it through a scrubber to dehydrate it. From there they ran gigantic motors that would power the system pumps etc. Methane puts out so little HP that it took great sized motors to produce even 75 HP. In the end the cost of working on the motors was more than the system could stand. Was it economical? Maybe....but rebuilding  those Euclids and Continentals etc was too great.

 

Off shore the practice continued until the use of turbines took over for sour gas usage. I do not if this was a mass system changeover but I was around many of them in the Gulf of Mex before Katrina.

 

Carry on

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What I was referring to was more a home scale generator Dave. Basically two cylindrical concrete tanks with one end open the other closed. The larger dia. lays on or in the ground open end up, the other rests inside it open end down. There is an air lock like a big P trap with a feed auger or plunger, or and the tank is filled with water maybe half way or better. Waste is fed in through the airlock and as it's digested the methane floats the cap tank pressurizing the gas. There is plumbing on top of the floating tank to draw methane.

 

No filters, and the only drier is water vapor condensing back into the generator tank.

 

I think the big motor fuel generators were as much show as go. Every dump in this area has big flare towers burning methane rather than using it for something. The cost of processing it to meet commercial or domestic use is sited as the reason it's more economical to flare it off.

 

An old friend, now deceased drilled into the debris pile buried by a humongous avalanche and burned methane in everything including the generator for some 25 years. I don't know what they did to process it I never visited their place but know folk who did and they say there was no smell. I think that may have been because it was digesting wood and brush.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

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It's a bit bigger than the home-scale systems you are referring to Frosty, but this is the gas flare on a site I occasionally work on.

 

The site has 5 anaerobic digesters that process around 350000 tonnes of organic waste a year. Generation capacity using the Methane produced is around 7 MW into the grid, using 4 MWM spark-ignition-engined generators.

 

The flare is only used to burn off any excess gas and is big enough to cope with the full gas production if we have a mains failure and cannot export the power.

 

Thermal capacity is 18 MW (around 61.4 million BTU/hr). It is lined with 4" or so of Kaowool and it PID-controls the temperature to 1000 degC (1832 degF) by adjusting the air:fuel ratio using the 6 air dampers around the base of the unit.

 

Basically, it's a slightly scaled-up gas forge.

 

 

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Yeah, that's a bit much for personal use. Heck, I don't know where I'd find 350,000 (metric) tons of waste to digest in it. I think that's pushing it for Anchorage let alone Wasilla.

 

I'm surprised they use the methane to drive reciprocating engines rather than turbines for station engines.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

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Robert, where are the pictures you keep alluding to??? You know we all 'live for pictures :)

Frosty, many years ago I saw 'methane generators' used for water heating and cooking on pig farms and I was fascinated by the water flame traps to prevent flashback with low pressure. Sadly at the time I did not pay enough attention to the overall process. Now that I have become interested in alternate energy it saddens me! So if you got a picture/s of those Indian jobs I would like to see.

Sorry if I'm hijacking the thread Robert.

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Sorry folks ,

 

I have been down for a bit am just now where I can even get on here to answer to any inquiries of the project . as my face has swelled to twice its normal size for about a week . it appears to be an infection in my jaw that is the issue and currently prevents any progress for a time until it stops .

 

I am truly sorry for the delay .

 

In pain and still puffy .

 

Ret. Sgt

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