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I Forge Iron

dickb

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Every blacksmith makes a few knifes at some time. 

This  my first effort, forged from a 3/4 inch crowbar. 

 

A few details, coal fired forge, water hardened and tempered at 400 degrees for an hour. 

Length 9 inches.

Came out ok and holds an edge very well.

 

I'd like to use some less mystery metal for the next few knifes.

 

Can anyone tell me the pros and cons of using 1040 , 1050,...... 1095 for this type of project.

I think these may be easier to find than others.

 

Thanks  

post-9165-0-67015400-1404841590_thumb.jp

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First link, not as specific to those particular steels as you might want, but very useful. Also well worth checking out the other classes in the knife making series. '?do=embed' frameborder='0' data-embedContent>>

 

You probably will also want to check out the link at the end of that knife making forum, which discusses metallurgy for bladesmiths in great depth, and mentions some aspects of different grades of steel. Very technical, and jargon heavy, but well worth sorting through. http://www.feine-klingen.de/PDFs/verhoeven.pdf

 

Good luck, and good forging!

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May I commend to your attention "The Complete Bladesmith, The Master Bladesmith, The Pattern Welded Blade" all by James Hrisoulas and all should be available by ILL at your local public library.  Of the alloys mentioned:  1095 would be the only one I would use for a high grade blade unless I was looking to use the japanese differential hardening technique and then 1050 might work.

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If they are low enough in Manganese you can get the hamon; but as this is a person new enough to ask the question they did....

BTW I didn't say you couldn't differentially harden other alloys just that I would not go as low as 1050 unless it was for that reason.

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I am switching from mystery metal to carbon steel to make a few knives.

 

What are the pros and cons of 1040 steel versus something higher (1060, 1095, etc).

 

The attached image is a knife I forged from a crowbar. It takes a good sharp edge and holds it very well.

Details. 9 inches overall length. Coal fired forge. Water hardened and then tempered at 400 degrees for an hour.  

 

Thanks 

PS I tried to post a similar message yesterday, but must have done something wrong because it never showed up. 

 

 

repeat post merged with the existing thread.

post-9165-0-91505000-1404906998_thumb.jp

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Dablacksmith is correct, 1040 is too low in carbon to make a good knife, in modern terms.  I'm sure a smith in 1800 would have been thrilled.  1040 and 4140 make for good prybars, hammers and those kinds of tools.  For a good basic knife steel, I like 1080/84.  1084 may not be easily available, but 1080 is.

 

When you're forging, you are losing carbon to heat, even if you're careful as to your temps, by the time you get done with forging 1040, you're probably below the carbon content needed to get a hard edge.  1080 give you some room.  On thing, don't water quench 1080, unless you like cracking blades.  Oil quench, I like food grade mineral oil but lots of things will work, vegi oils, ATF, that sort of thing.  Mineral oil has a high flash point and leaves very little residue.

 

Geoff

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Nope by 1800 they even had crucible steel as well as blister steel and shear steel; now back in the early middle ages it was more of a wide range of materials; but even then they tended to forge weld a higher carbon edge to the blade for knives.  I'll see if "Knives and Scabbards" has a listing of carbon contents used in the London area over several centuries in medieval times.

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Hello, 
In my point of view, the 1040 and 1050 steel don't have enought Carbon in the structure and that's why they are not very common on knife making. 

They can be quenched, that's for sure but after you harden it, the edge still a bit soft and tends to lose it quickly. 

Here's a chart for a good result with some steels: 

Steel------------ Quenching temperature ºC-------------- Quench in 
1040------------------     830ºC    ----------------------    Water
1050------------------     830ºC    ----------------------    Water
1060------------------    790ºC    ----------------------    Water or Oil
1070------------------    790ºC     ---------------------    Oil
1080------------------    790ºC     --------------------      Water or oil
1090------------------    775ºC     --------------------     Oil
5160------------------    875ºC     --------------------     Oil 


Quenching temperature is the temperature that the steel needs to reach right before you drop it in water or oil for quenching. I don't know if there is a specific term in English to say that. 

If you follow this chart you will probably end with better results. But as I said with you are trying to make top knotch knives, there are better steels than 1040 and 1050. 

Thanks, 
EB. 

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