Issues with neighbors

[dognose]

My wife and I are just about to pull the trigger on buying a new (old) house. Where we live now is near a highway so most of the time I'm pretty safe with banging away without complaint from the neighbors as the sound from passing cars drowns the noise out. The place we're looking at is up in the hills and while the houses aren't right on top of each other, it's generally pretty quiet. I've read many of the posts and links for soundproofing and anvil deadening, but what I'm particularly concerned about is my 25lb little giant.  Of all my tools, I think it might be of the most concern. I'm not necessarily looking for advice on how to anchor it properly, but perhaps which way would deaden the sound/vibration best. 

Then there is the issue of ventilation. Would a smaller intake vent coupled with a small powerful exhaust vent/fan let less noise escape than say a larger opening (roll-up door) strategically placed facing away from neighbors houses? 

Does anyone have any nightmare neighbor stories? What problems arose and how were they resolved? Thanks

[SoCal Dave]

I have a 50 lb Little Giant in my converted horse barn.  I generally don't start the power hammer before 10:00Am, not all day long, and not after 6:00Pm.  So, I am respectful of their quiet enjoyment of their property.  All I have on the base of the hammer is some plywood and conveyer belts.  It is next to the sliding barn doors so the neighbors can see it if they look over the fence.  No complaints but I have noticed I don't have squirrels or gofers anymore.  Must be at my neighbors yard?  

[JamesG]

talk to your neighbors, explain what you do, show them even.

[Francis Trez Cole]

I have one the neighbor called the fire department when I was making charcoal (there is a county burn ban). I asked the chief about my blacksmithing it did not fall under there jurisdiction. so I do not worry to much. As far as noise you can start at 7:00 am here until 10:00 pm but I work as late as I want when I am in the flow. My wife down loaded a decibel meter for her phone. My power hammer sound at the door of the shop was 80 Decibel way below the noise level of my county. At this point I do not care what they think I tried to be nice. Then they drew the line in the sand. When they built these houses I went to the zoning hearing and spoke and put it on record the I blacksmith and our property is zoned open use estate. Some times you have to use the letter of the law to your advantage. The neighbors on the other side come over to see what I am working they do not care. they are fascinated with what I am doing.

[dognose]

Francis, thanks. That's the sort of response I was looking for. I want to be a good neighbor, but blacksmithing is not a hobby that many people practice. At least not per capita. Most people think I'm a farrier when I say Blacksmith.

[RGraff]

I ran my machine shop/fabrication business out of my home for a time.  As was mentioned already, be up front with the neighbors and give them a heads up about what you're doing.  Keep the work hours "reasonable" (straightening a safe door at 11:30 at night is not reasonable...ask me how I know).  Invite them over for a cup and show them what you're up to.  Worked for me.

[SJS]

Landscaping for sound deadening, tall ornamental grasses, and such can muffle the sounds. Be upfront and freindly most people are decent people. I would be tempted to "interview" the prospective neighbors before moving in to a 'neighborhood' having lived out in the country far from any neighbors for so long;-) better safe than moving in next to someone who will be a thorn in your side... I would be very tempted to pass on a nice property if I had a gut feeling one of the neighbors was going to be 'problematic' who knows that person might be the reason the seller was selling.

[DSW]

I haven't had any luck the last dozen times I tried to post in this thread, but lets see if they got the issues straightened out....

 

 From talking to a sound engineer we hired when having issues with new neighbors at the gun range, I learned sound ordinances are notoriously difficult to enforce for several reasons. 1st one is that most ordinances are written that you can't exceed a continuous sound by so many decibels. Very few municipalities have a calibrated decibel meter that has been calibrated recently, or a trained technician to use it. All three are needed along with all the proper documentation on when the last calibration and training update was done, or the evidence collected with one is inadmissible in court. Usually it never goes that far, since most don't even have a decibel meter to take a reading with in the 1st place, let alone some one trained to use it.

 

2nd is the continuous part of the above statement. individual load noises are usually exempt, like individual gun shots. It's only when a bunch are all together that they exceed the minimum time in the ordinance. So running a power hammer continuously may be a violation, but running one in short bursts or as individual blows, may not be covered.

 

3rd is that most laws and ordinances must be uniformly enforced, and sound or "nusience" ordinances are usually enforced by complaint. You will very often find that ordinary day to day things violate the noise ordinance, but they never get sited or enforced. Things like motorcycles, lawn mowers and most small engine yard equipment almost always exceed the decibel limits of an ordinance. In court you can argue that if they are going to enforce the noise restrictions on you, then they need to apply that ordinance to everyone else to be "fair". Since it's almost impossible to do so, you can often get either the citation tossed, or in some cases the judge will toss the whole ordinance as unenforceable

 

 

Many times the code officers know they can't win in court, but just bluff and intimidation to force people to comply with their wishes. Many times you may not even be in violation of anything, but they will try to coerce you into giving in simply so they don't have to deal with someone who called in and complained. Knowing exactly what the codes and laws are is your best defense.

 

I had a "pest up the street from me for years who used to complain about all sorts of things about people in the neighborhood. Last time around The complaint had to do with stuff I had stored at the house and my business. The code officer forced an inspection of my house and our rental property next door. I asked for a detailed list of the violations, then obtained a code book from the township to learn exactly where I was and wasn't in compliance. Most of the "violations" were bull. Every time they tried to bluff me that I was in violation on one of those with the inspection, I pulled out the marked code book and asked them to point out and explain why. They backed off every time I called their bluff. After the inspection I told them I knew who the "anonymous" person who was complaining was. I told them to let him know the next time he complained, that I can play the same game he could, and that his home office up the street was in violation of numerous handicapped accessibility laws that I would require that they enforce. My rough guess I told them was that the required work to comply with codes on his business would add up to over $75K in work.  The code official tried again to bluff me saying the neighbor was "grandfathered" in, and I simply pulled out the code book and asked that they show where that was listed in the codes for numerous federal requirements. He backed down again because he knew I was right. Surprisingly I never had the "pest" complain again about me.

 

I used to get at least one notification of code violations a year if not two. Since I stood up to the code officials and showed them I could read the book and play their game and wouldn't allow my self to be intimidated by them and would fight them in court to prove they were wrong and I was right, I haven't had any since. Nor have any of my neighbors.  I'm pretty sure that majority of these letters were simply a bluff by the officials to get people to do what they wanted thru intimidation tactics.

[SpankySmith]

I have also found noise ordinances to be not worth the paper they're written on, largely unenforceable.  Every once in a great while one of the local cops will use it to stop some teenager in a car with the stereo system vibrating the street, but in neighborhoods, at least around here, people will put up with noise fairly regularly unless it's of the late night variety.  I work in my backyard and worried a bit about the noise, but as Dognose mentioned above, it's not like it's continuous - I'm not non-stop hammering for 6 hours or so, there is a flurry of hammering, then heating, then some hammering, then heating, then drinking some Gatorade, some thinking about what I'm doing, some more hammering....   I don't think it's actually at the wildly annoying level, even though i live in very close proximity to neighbors. 

 

If anything around here my neighbors have disappointed me, I thought at least ONE of them would come over to see what the noise was - it's rather distinct.  Nope.   These days it seems most people just live and let live, though there are always the outliers like Dognose had to deal with.  Sadly. 

[Steve Sells]

Some of the complacency about our shops can cause troubles.  My neighbor had a garage fire, a total loss.  He told me that he and the the rest of the neighbors assumed the smoke was me in the forge, untill they saw the flames comming from his garage.  He said that he may have gone out to look sooner if he were not so use to me forging in the mornings.

[dognose]

Steve, that's a tough one. Not that you should in any way feel guilty, but I see what you mean. What was the cause of your neighbor's fire if you don't mind me asking? Were there any hard feelings? I'm guessing now every time you fire up the forge, there's a little thought in the back of your head. Bummer.

[Steve Sells]

I am in a historic neighborhod.  This property was an old rental he was fixing up.  The garage was of timber frame, and seems the electric was done by the amish as well as the barn style garage framing.    Old light ballast caused the fire according to the report.

 

We get along fine, and his 3 pit bulls love me too :) 2 were in the garage when it caught fire, none were hurt, just very scared, maybe worried they would ge accused of playing with matches ?