Has anyone made a sheep wagon door latch?

[LawnJockey]

Recently I built a sheep wagon but I still need to make a proper latch for the lower Dutch door.  The proper latch uses leverage to tension the latch closed and thus counter act the tendency toward weakness created by the door cut out.  It works much like a levered loop latch on a fence or a highfield lever on a running backstay on a sailboat.  Rather than trying to reinvent the wheel I figured I would ask if any of you have experience making these latches.

 

Here is the sheep wagon.

 

[quick60]

That is really cool!!!!  Your carpentry skills are top notch. 

 

I have to ask but what is and why is it called a sheep wagon?  It obviously looks like a camper but not sure id take iton the road.  I bet it gets toasty with a fire going too. 

 

Sorry never forged a latch like you need but looking forward to see what ideas you get. 

 

Again nice woodworking skills thanks for sharing.

[Frosty]

A sheep wagon is what shepherds live in, following the flocks. They used to be single horse or mule hitches but since motor vehicles became something a working stiff could afford they've been towed behind a pickup or similar. Camp trailers weren't used for a couple reasons, they were too expensive when a guy could build his own and following the flocks often put's the shepherd in rougher terrain than a commercial camp trailer would survive.

 

We used to see sheep wagons here and there in the Mojave grazing lands and seeing as we were usually on horseback the herd dog barely took note and we weren't about to mess with the flocks.

 

Sorry, I can't be of help with the latch either, other than to say what you're looking for probably dates from before the motor vehicle took over for draft animals. Almost certainly from before WWII. After WWII good door/gate latches were a lot more common and had wider selection out of hardware stores. American's manufacturing might was in full bloom when the boys started coming home from the war and folk had growing purchasing power.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

[LawnJockey]

Thanks.  Sheep wagons were invented by blacksmiths in Wyoming for sheepherders in the days of the open range.  They would be out for months at a time moving from location to location depending on the quality of the grass available.  Every week or so a camp tender would come out with supplies and help move the wagon.  The original wagons were made on old horse drawn wagons.  Then they were built on old pick up truck frames.  The founder of Airstream Trailers had actually spent time working as a herder and he took the sheep wagon concept and applied aviation metal working methods and the Airstream was born.

 

I built this as a two wheel trailer rather than a wagon so it would tow better at highway speeds.  I purchased a boat trailer off Craigslist with title and registration for $200.  I took it apart and welded it back together in the proper size, also eliminating the dipping cross pieces used on boat trailers.

 

I just got back a couple of weeks ago from six weeks on the road with it.  I travelled from California to Washington DC and back stopping at my off the grid place in New Mexico and a few days in Santa Fe too.  It handles well off road.

 

I am going to try to attach a pdf that shows the latch I need to make.  This is the best picture I have found and I believe it is a bit misleading because it looks like the stop that stops the lever didn't stop it thus the latch is hanging in a way that it never would if it was properly functioning.

 

 

sheep wagon latch 2.pdf

[LawnJockey]

You have to move the image so the extreme left side shows to see the latch.

[bigfootnampa]

I've seen dozens of these wagons in use on the rangelands of Idaho!  Never thought to inspect the latches though!  Maybe google for pics as they are quite photogenic... you might find one that gives decent detail!  BTW, not many are as pretty as yours!

[mike-hr]

I can't help either, but love the craftsmanship. My grandfather immigrated from Ireland in the 1920's, to the high desert oregon country around lakeview. One of his jobs as a teenager was to ride horseback to all the sheep camps in a 100 mile radius, and take orders for groceries, vet supplies, etc. The freight wagon would come the week after with the supplies. He talked often about learning to trust his horse to navigation during heavy snowstorms, dark, or fog. The horse didn't want to walk off the edge of a rimrock any more than grampa did. Thanks for the memories. I remember playing in several of these as a child, retired from service, but put to pasture out back on many local farms.

[chichi]

The latch in the picture looks like a hasp with a hook. The ones that I have seen (probably not what you want) have a "U" shaped hasp screwed to the frame. The door had a hinged piece of flat stock that had a slot that fit over the "U" shaped hasp. There was another piece that was riveted to the flat stock that had a hook on the end. It would drop into the U piece thereby locking everything in place. That set up is straightforward and fairly intiuitive  how it is made.

I hope you can find another picture to clarify what you need. BTW, nice wagon. Is that also called a Gypsy wagon?

[LawnJockey]

Thanks again for the nice comments.  Chichi, I think you are thinking of the latch to the storage area in the rear, see photos below.

 

Here is my guess as to how the latch works:  There is a strap fastened to the door.  Toward the left side the lever handle is riveted to the strap so that it can still rotate.  A little ways (unknown distance) up from the rivet toward the lever handle the non-hook end of the hook is riveted to lever so that it too can swing.  It would work as follows:  With the lever handle in an upright position the hook is lined up with the catch on the door jamb.  The lever handle is rotated clockwise and the hook is pulled tight in the catch.  At this point the pressure felt in the lever is pulling the handle counter clockwise.  When the handle rotates past the axis of the mechanism the counter force flips to a clockwise direction.  After the reversal of the counter force there is a stop on the backing strap fastened to the door.  This stop stops the lever from being pulled further clockwise.  The stop would be constructed like a hook so that it would also stop the lever from being pulled away from the door.  As usual I am probably not foreseeing many details.

[mjenki]

Hi all,

I made something similar but on a smaller scale for a dutch door hasp. (to join the top and the bottom halves of a dutch door)

http://www.cloverdaleforge.com/post/65162845586/dutch-door-latch-complete-door-blacksmith-iron

 

A google search under "dutch door hasp" will show several different variations.  The image in the pdf, looks to function the same but with an extended handle for leverage.

Maybe this different name will offer some new insight.

 

The other option is that the hook and the handle both swing independently, and work like the available barn door hardware.  Known as "draw latches"  or "cam latches"

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Matt

[Jack Evers]

I have an original to be rebuilt. Has not been used since the 70's,  The undercarrige, wheels and tire goway ba ck.  I'll check when I get home, but it just has a hasp and a doorknob. I believe the two wheeled version was called a gypsey wagon and was towed behing freight wagons, was not used for sheep.I have a book, I'll reference .

[LawnJockey]

Thanks Mat and Jack.  The two wheeled versions towed behind freighters was called a cooster wagon.  For some unknown reason cooster wagons also had the stove on the opposite side.  I have an antique door knob on the upper door.  The draw latch for a barn is mechanically what I am looking for, or should I say looking to make.

[Jack Evers]

I can see the use of tying it together, mine doesn't have that. How did I date mine?  Found some empty Pepsi cans in it marked 50th anniversary 1923-1973. It was used then as an elk hunting camp.

[LawnJockey]

I don't know how to date one.  There is a book, Sheep Wagons, Home on the Range by Nancy Weidel which is the best source of info in one place.  If yours has the stove still in it you are a lucky man.  They are highly sought after.  I have seen them go for as much as $1,000 on ebay.  I hunted for one for months.  Then I found one on Craigslist 200 miles from where I live in a town I was planning on driving through the following weekend for a fishing trip.  We didn't do much fishing on that trip as we were so excited about finding the stove we spent most of the time baking apple pies in camp.