Sam Salvati Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 Tonight there is a show on Nova on PBS on japanese swordsmithing, i figure it would be of interest to all sword/blade and non sword/blade smiths as well, still very interesting/funny/total bs/worth watching:D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLMartin Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 thanks buddy, will watch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitebear Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 i jsut watched it and man was that the cgreatest program i've seen in a long time. right no the money too. makes me want to make one. i hope y'all got the chance to see it. it really blew me away wit the skill involved in making and using one of those magnificent tools. Son Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bipolarandy Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 I was very disappointed at how much they dumbed down the science aspect of it so much and relied on silly reenactments and 3d computer animations. Shame on you Nova, you took a great subject and trashed it by appealing to the lowest common denominator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psilogen Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 leave it to a VNV Nation fan to bring the harsh criticism down on some plebian effort (haha, I am just kidding around. I love VNV and have not seen this documentary show) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 I was quite disgusted by all the hype. The steel was smelted *just* right by someone with a lifetime of experience---and then needed tons of work to get it usable. They impy that they were so advanced yet 300 years previous to when they said the japanese swords were started the northern europeans were smelting and making blades of multiple pieces of different carbon contents---"Metallography of Early Ferrous Edge Tools and Edged Weapons" Tylecote and Gilmour; has an example with 13 seperate pieces and 5 of those are pattern welded billets. Connections had a program where a middle aged out of shape *untrained* academic took a medieval european sword and sliced a side of beef nearly in two---european battlefields are often described as being littered with severed limbs. And finally this "supreme" sword with it's "flexibility" takes a set and cracks the edge in situations that other swords suffer no damage whatsoever. My idea of the epitome of swords is not one where a master swordsman who has trained longer than I have lived can destroy the blade by making a slight mistake in use. What happens in the hurly burly of battle when you are not one on one? They sure are pretty though and the differential hardening is a neat trick; they are not the greatest swords that ever were in my opinion. I much prefer National Geographic's Living Treasures of Japan---more sword smithing less hype---ask your library if they have it or can ILL it for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoary Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 I watched the program, it was quite informative and entertaining but there was something I did take note of...about capturing the carbon in the blade. how do you know, aside from breaking brittle iron, if you've over carbonized the metal? Is there something I could read that would help me get a better undersanding? I'm sure that carbonizing metal can go further in smithing things, I was just trying to see if there was a better way to know rather than trial and error and error ect. okie dokey thanks! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithral Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 I was quite disgusted by all the hype. The steel was smelted *just* right by someone with a lifetime of experience---and then needed tons of work to get it usable. They impy that they were so advanced yet 300 years previous to when they said the japanese swords were started the northern europeans were smelting and making blades of multiple pieces of different carbon contents---"Metallography of Early Ferrous Edge Tools and Edged Weapons" Tylecote and Gilmour; has an example with 13 seperate pieces and 5 of those are pattern welded billets. Connections had a program where a middle aged out of shape *untrained* academic took a medieval european sword and sliced a side of beef nearly in two---european battlefields are often described as being littered with severed limbs. And finally this "supreme" sword with it's "flexibility" takes a set and cracks the edge in situations that other swords suffer no damage whatsoever. My idea of the epitome of swords is not one where a master swordsman who has trained longer than I have lived can destroy the blade by making a slight mistake in use. What happens in the hurly burly of battle when you are not one on one? They sure are pretty though and the differential hardening is a neat trick; they are not the greatest swords that ever were in my opinion. I much prefer National Geographic's Living Treasures of Japan---more sword smithing less hype---ask your library if they have it or can ILL it for you. Basically it all comes down to a difference in armor/fighting style/materials. Besides which, up until the 16th century the sword wasn't even considered the ultimate weapon. They were primarily mounted archery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Hoary, one thing they didn't metion is that the high carbon tamahagane starts out at nearly cast iron (2% carbon) and all the folding and welding *drops* the carbon content to about 0.5% for the edge steel for the finished blade. A bit low in our western thoughts on blades but the special heat treat does get maximum hardness for the edge and not tempering it helps preserve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPH Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Howdy!! Ok just do what I did and turn off the sound...I enjoyed it much better than listening to the bloom in the furnance beiung called "ore" and all the "worshipping" of these guys who wouldn't know a good sword if it bit them on their hairy hiennies... BUT I will say they got some great film on the smelting..best I ever seen anyways. I would like to see them do the same thing on the N European composite swords of the Migrationary period... Where these folks got the idea that the Japanese sword was so great is beyond me..might have to do with the fact that they were in use in combat up until WWII and a sword, a decent sword... is a very devasting weapon "one on one"..That and all that propaganda that the Japanese government in the war spread... I dunno... All in all...try watching the "hot working" scenes with the sound off...it's not that bad really JPH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Salvati Posted October 11, 2007 Author Share Posted October 11, 2007 I loved the whole part concerning the smelting, like Jim said GREAT shots. I see the hammer work stuff almost everyday:D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feukair Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 I thought the show was very cool. As for the hype about katanas, i love katanas, but i don't know if they are the best swords in the world, i don't know what is. Every body says there product is the best, what would you expect them to say? "The Samurai sword... the 3rd best sword ever made..." come on... How would you feel if you were the sword smith and PBS asked you to appear on a show about the 2nd or 3rd best sword ever made? You wouldn't and there wouldn't be a show... Still, that stuff is always cool to watch. I save it on my dvr and will prolly watch it again b4 i delete it. Lt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 The basic problem is you can't say something is *best* without saying what for. The Saturn V may have been the *best* vehicle for the Apollo program but it makes a terrible one to go down to the store and buy a loaf of bread. The katana fits it's use criteria very well; but is terrible in other situations. TV seems to believe that if they don't hype something people won't watch. Notice the half life of the crisis dejour on the news programs. They get everyone all upset about something, there is a lot of pressure to pass a lot of badly written laws, and a month later something *else* is the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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