billyO Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Hello all. While making some integrated collars for a grille and gate I'm doing, I'm having a minor issue that may not even be an issue. What I'm trying to do is split the end of a 1/2 X 1 1/2" bar on the flat about 2"+ a bit, spread the split and forge into a "T" shape, with each arm of the T wrapping around a piece of 1" square forming a collar, with the 1" centered on the 1 1/2" flat. What seems to happen is a thinning of the material at the end of the split when I forge the "T". I've tried a number of test pieces trying splitting the stock with a hot cut, band saw, and drilling a 1/8" hole at the end of the split, and all stretch at the junction. I can push material from the bend to the thinning with a straight pein, to re-thicken that spot, but it takes some extra work to do. My questions are 2: 1. Is there a better way (other than forgewelding) to make the "T"? 2. Should I worry about this? . . . I found out I can hide the thinning on the inside of the collar (but I'll know its there) Let me know if pics would help. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbruce Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 I spose this will rankle some trad folks but here's my 2cents........Butt weld (and I mean 100%) and finish 2 pieces of 1 1/2 x 1/4'' flat to the end of your 1-1/2'' bar and procede. Labor intensive, yes, but you shouldn't lose any serious mass by hammering this way..... Or you could split a 1-1/2 x 3/4 bar which would give you lotsa mass and draw it down to 1/2 x 1-1/2'' where needed, very labor intensive..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLMartin Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Take a short isolated heat on the bar right where the end of the split will be and up set the bar. Having the extra mass there will allow for some lost in thickness as the cut is made and the ends bent open. I often will make a small upset in a bar before I split for a item like a fork Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyO Posted August 28, 2013 Author Share Posted August 28, 2013 Take a short isolated heat on the bar right where the end of the split will be and up set the bar. Having the extra mass there will allow for some lost in thickness as the cut is made and the ends bent open. I often will make a small upset in a bar before I split for a item like a fork Thanks! This should hit the top of the "Duh, why didn't I think of that!?!" bucket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Have you a pic you can show us,I am somewhat intrigued on how you are going to collar a 1" square bar to a 1.5" wide flat bar with the end T'eed and make a secure coupling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Coke Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 Greetings Bill, I don't totally understand your collar arrangement butt I will give you my 2c worth... If you are looking for a "T" I think I would taper the end for a scarf . Than 1/2 cut for a faggot forge weld about 2 inches . This would yield a 1in by 1 1/2 mass to work with and should give you plenty of stock to split and "T". A picture would be nice.. Forge on and make beautiful things. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyO Posted September 1, 2013 Author Share Posted September 1, 2013 Hi all, and thanks for the responses! Sorry about the delay, but was fianally able to get back to this and I think I've figured it out enough to work on the actual piece (and it only took 3 3/4 practice pieces, down from my usual 6-7! :D) It still took me about 12-15 heats (not counting the upsetting heats), pretty labor intensive for my tastes, but that may be due to me being on the slower side. Here're pics JohnB: I upset, drilled a 1/8" hole at the end of the split, bent the split 90 the harder way, made the "T", then bent each arm to form the collar individually, I may practice one more and try to do both arms of the collar at the same time, that could save about 5-6 heats... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLMartin Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 O I must have misunderstood your first description. I did not picture that in my mind. Very interesting joint. You might try making a T joint forge weld to get the collar material on the end of the bar next time. Might be faster Good Luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 Excelleñt joinery! Congrats! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 Thanks Billy, i can see your problems, I would not have described that as a collar, more a start to a wrap, However you have done a good job on getting your corners neat, did you use a mandrel to size the gap? Is it finished or are you going to enclose the bar to make the wrap/collar? Looks to be a sliding fit you are aiming for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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