Nick Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 I've taken two tries at an asymmetric-wrap Viking axe, but so far I've had no luck. I'm not quite sure where I'm going wrong, but the bottom edge of the front of the eye in particular is a problem. The first attempt the eye was very narrow after welding but the weld was good. The front of the eye wasn't welded as well as it should have been, though, and the bottom seemed further forward than the top (making the eye longer on the bottom!) I think the cheeks were too thin, and I wasn't able to shape the eye very well. The second attempt weld didn't go as well, I couldn't get the scarf bleded, and the back of the joint was also not as good. I carried on with the eye for practice, but the bottom of the eye was still longer. I was able to shape the eye better this time, but the weld blew before I could fully shape it and form the langets (I expected it, but it's still a downer when a weld fails). In both instances the front of the eye was very narrow and it was difficult to get the drift in. I know I need more practice on this, but I could use some advice. Particularly, how thick should the cheeks be before welding and shaping the eye? Also, I was using .5"x1.5" stock, would it be better to use 3/4", or forge it to 3/4"? I'm not sure how I'm making the bottom of the eye bigger, but I did it twice in a row. Possibly I'm not welding that corner of the joint. I really want to figure this out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 To get this right is simple,,,shop time working on basics. I know that sounds boring and you want to make an axe. Welds do not blow..they fail when they are not welded. You seem to have trouble with shaping and how metal moves when forged,,,another basic. The one thing pointing to failure in almost anything is trying to put together different skills and be short on one or more. If yoiu can lay the axe idea aside and work on the work that they need then you can put it all together. Remember you can cold forge modeling clay, and see wot it takes to make it work. And at same time can try different thickness's and widths, if needed you can ball it up and start again....often. And remember we can anser youir questions more clearly if yoiu post nice clear pics.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted August 12, 2013 Author Share Posted August 12, 2013 As I said, I knew the second weld hadn't taken, but I carried on shaping the eye for practice's sake until it opened up. I don't have trouble with shaping or moving metal, I'm sorry if I gave that impression. This paticular shape is new for me so I'm working on getting it right. I'll never get it if I don't try. If it hadn't been for the bad weld I think I would have gotten the second eye, assuming I'm right about the fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 Nick: What I believe Rich is saying forget the axe for now and practice the operation that's giving you trouble. You won't have as much time invested so failures are easier to take. If your welds aren't taking practice THAT weld, just that weld. Once you have it down take on the next trouble child. A person can have good basic skills and still run into a basic operation that just doesn't work on a project. That's the time to isolate that operation and the circumstances under which it fails. And Practice it till it works, then integrate into the desired project. What's happening to you is no strange thing to us all and we have to get our back up, put on our stubborn pants and just go after it. And yes, I've had to isolate that ONE pesky operation that's the headache child and work it through. Take it apart into individual operations and start from there. Been there, done it, got the scars AND the right piece. Just don't give up. I could be a LOT more helpful if you'd post a pic or two. A drawing of what you want to make and how you want to make it, then some pics of the failed piece. Keep at it buddy, we're pulling for you! Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basher Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 Nick: What I believe Rich is saying forget the axe for now and practice the operation that's giving you trouble. You won't have as much time invested so failures are easier to take. If your welds aren't taking practice THAT weld, just that weld. Once you have it down take on the next trouble child. A person can have good basic skills and still run into a basic operation that just doesn't work on a project. That's the time to isolate that operation and the circumstances under which it fails. And Practice it till it works, then integrate into the desired project. What's happening to you is no strange thing to us all and we have to get our back up, put on our stubborn pants and just go after it. And yes, I've had to isolate that ONE pesky operation that's the headache child and work it through. Take it apart into individual operations and start from there. Been there, done it, got the scars AND the right piece. Just don't give up. I could be a LOT more helpful if you'd post a pic or two. A drawing of what you want to make and how you want to make it, then some pics of the failed piece. Keep at it buddy, we're pulling for you! Frosty The Lucky. I think Frosty just about has it. I made a bunch of sword tips before I managed to get a sword tip wrap done, or more realistically I failed a couple of times (wasting days of work) and then approached it in a more systematic methodical way. it was the same with welded socket axes. certainly 5 or 6 times before it worked to my satisfaction. when approaching a piece of work with a very technical high failure rate process I always try and get the possible fail out of the way as soon a s possible . that way if it doesn't work I have not wasted too much time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 What type if steel are you using? Might help with with helping you with the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted August 12, 2013 Author Share Posted August 12, 2013 Thanks, gents. Charles, both were from a bar of scrap hot rolled mild steel from my pile (didn't want to buy new until after I had tried it a few times). I don't have good pictures of the pieces done, but I did take these photos of the first one while I was shaping the inside of the eye. Looking at them, I'd say I didn't do the rightmost fuller perpendicular, so the edges didn't meet up right, and I think I need to square up the shoulders on the inside of the eye before bending. I did decide to set the axe project aside for today, and had a very good day in the forge on other projects. I'm not giving up by a long shot, but I'll come back to it in a couple days fresh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Paul Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Before I stated forging any wrapped eye axes, I purcahsed a couple lenghts of 1/2" x 1" stock and just focused on the eye. I formed and werapped/welded many eyes before I ever started on an axe. Do you have any info or phtots of the steps where you are wrapping, prep for your weld, etc? I found that, for me anyway. having a clean sharp edge on both corners at the location of the weld, on the front of the eye, and a nice clean surface tends to help get both a cleaner looking and quality weld on the eye. I started clamping the "axe" in the post vice, while still flat, and using a hand fuller to really square up those edges before I wrap the steel. Although I do things a bit differently now as far as the scarf cleanlines of the corners and location of fullers, here is a photo of the first axe that I did, pre weld, to get a bit of an idea -- if it helps any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted September 13, 2013 Author Share Posted September 13, 2013 Thanks, 556mp. I don't have any other photos than what I posted (I had the camera, but ended up not taking many pics), but the corners of the inside of the eye weren't as sharp as the ones on your picture. They were shouldered on the anvil but I didn't upset them, so they came together at an angle. The scarf also wasn't as long, and steeper. Most of the problems I had I think stemmed from not squaring the corners as you've suggested, making the front of the eye come to a point after the weld. I'll get some barstock and try it again (I've been busy with some other projects recently). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Paul Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 If you search around, I dont have it bookmarked anymore as my old computer broke. But James Austin had a video doing a wrapped eye and showed a nice way to get the inner eye prepped, using a small top fuller, if I recall. I have two sizes that I use, First the large one, then the smaller one to push the last bit of material out to the edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KYBOY Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Ive done a lot of wrapped/welded axes over the years..I don't know so please don't take it as me picking but just to add that the biggest reason I see eye welds fail are that the whole piece was not brought up to welding temp..Not just up to the eye but a bit past it too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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