Ask a farrier

[Frank Turley]

Blacksmiths formerly made and still do make small steel "spurs" for cockfighting. They had the shape of a tiny scythe blade. Although cockfighting is against the law in the U.S., the fights still happen in isolated areas. In Spanish, the spur is a "navaja de gallo."

[Frank Turley]

3DistinctKnocks, Horseshoes are most often applied to keep the hoofs from wearing out faster than nature supplies growth.

 

Sayings and Cornpone

"If you don't believe in eternity, visit your local department of motor vehicles."

[Rich Hale]

3 D I would suggest that unless you  have been trained as a farrier you involve one. A good one..I take the time to type this as I believe if you are trained you would not have posted the one view pics and asked for ideas on shoeing/trimming tips. I have quite a background and would not even want to guess from the pics. From wot you say I believe it is a good thing you are involved in this horse's life. They are worth it for wot they bring to our lives....

[3DistinctKnocks]

She's 15 years old, Tenn. Walker.  I wish we'd taken a few pictures of her when we got her.  Her front feet were HORRIBLE!  Thrushy, overgrown, and hadn't been picked out in years.  The main reason I posted the picture and question is just to get other folks' opinion on her from the poorly shot picture that I had after her initial trim and description .  We primarily ride her on dirt and in wooded areas.  Her heels look good once trimmed up.  Cracks are minimal on the hoof wall, especially now that she's been trimmed up.  We have no plans to shoe her at the moment, but winter might change that depending on how cold and muddy it'll get.  She's in good health overall.  Her hoof wall seems to grow quickly and that's another reason I don't want to put shoes on her right now.  If we rode her on blacktop or in rocky conditions, I'd shoe her but for now she's barefoot.  My biggest question (and I'm really asking for farrier's opinions) is do you suggest a major trim on an overgrown hoof or to work it back gradually?  That's been my biggest conundrum.  I'm not farrier, but I do have some horse-sense.  If I run into an issue that I have any big doubts about, off to the Amish farrier we go.  I'd rather spend some big bucks to keep a horse in good shape than to let pride get in the way and allow a horse to suffer needlessly.  Like the old saying goes...an ounce of prevention outweighs a pound of cure.

[Rich Hale]

Whether to do a major trim on an abused/neglected horse is decided case by case. And may involve the assistance of a large animal Vet with horse experience. For those horse left go so long that they have rams horn kinds of hoofs a foot long or more a vet will  likely ask for a dramatic trim...those can involve electric saws to get back to the point nippers can be used. For horses that are a couple of inches longer than would be appropriate. Bring back at least close to proper angles may be done right away. How the horse is kept plays a large part for me. If it is stall bound in deep bedding the proper angles are not quite as important as ,if like yours it is being ridden barefoot. Just being ridden changes the matter. When we climb aboard things are different. Then things like proper alignment of the joints at P1, P2, P3 are needed to keep lower legs healthy. I would also want to take a look at wot you describe as lamina stretching. Sometimes just long hoof walls will show that. sometimes it requires more study. A trained farrier develops a sense of feel for the trimmed sole of the foot and may be able to tell problem areas inside the capsul with fingers or hoof testers. So back to wot I typed above....I would not touch this horse with information gleaned from text or limited pics. 

However I am a strong believer in the  "its yours shop,,your rules" approach, applied here its " your horse"

[3DistinctKnocks]

Whether to do a major trim on an abused/neglected horse is decided case by case. And may involve the assistance of a large animal Vet with horse experience. For those horse left go so long that they have rams horn kinds of hoofs a foot long or more a vet will  likely ask for a dramatic trim...those can involve electric saws to get back to the point nippers can be used. For horses that are a couple of inches longer than would be appropriate. Bring back at least close to proper angles may be done right away. How the horse is kept plays a large part for me. If it is stall bound in deep bedding the proper angles are not quite as important as ,if like yours it is being ridden barefoot. Just being ridden changes the matter. When we climb aboard things are different. Then things like proper alignment of the joints at P1, P2, P3 are needed to keep lower legs healthy. I would also want to take a look at wot you describe as lamina stretching. Sometimes just long hoof walls will show that. sometimes it requires more study. A trained farrier develops a sense of feel for the trimmed sole of the foot and may be able to tell problem areas inside the capsul with fingers or hoof testers. So back to wot I typed above....I would not touch this horse with information gleaned from text or limited pics. 

However I am a strong believer in the  "its yours shop,,your rules" approach, applied here its " your horse"

Thanks for your perspective, Mr. Hale.  It is very much appreciated.

Mr. Turley, Mr. Stevens, thanks for your responses as well.  Its good to hear from experienced smiths and farriers such as yourselves.  I've been around horses all my life, but haven't messed with hooves much other than doing the basic picking and rasping.  And....sorry to hijack the thread!!!

[Charles R. Stevens]

Hard to find fault in Rich's advice. You give me the feeling you have a good head on your shoulders, and a good heart so I'm confertable trying to educate you so you can make informed desk soaks about your horse.
In a case of severe neglect were as the feet look like pankakes and you have to make two nipper runs, trimming the hoof back to proper angles. The majors issue is that the horse will end up standing on his soles for a week or so. For a lamitic horse with "slipper foot" as Rich points out, you sawsall the toe off and carve a foot out. In some cases all your landmarks are squed because the hoof has dropped at the coronary band and exposed the coffin joint ( the joint between P1 and 2) At wich point you really need experience (I've looked at a lot of X-rays of feet befor and after I carved on them). In such cases the muscles attached to the flexor and deep flexor tends a may have srunck and we would have to consult with a vet for a surgical itrovention so we can get P1 in proper relation to the ground.
After all that, get us some more pictures. We need her hoves and pasterns, from the side, the clean hoof strait down on the sole, front and rear, as well as a full body side view.
You will get a better opinion, especially if its time to call in specialists, or wrather a good balanced trim is in order.

[Charles R. Stevens]

As fare as hijacking, that why I started the thread. If you got a question ask. We aren't vets, but honest horsemen and smiths. I wouldn't be surprised if a vet isn't here on IFI tho.
Rich, Frank thanks for chimeing in.

[Frank Turley]

Distinct, It's good to hear from a concerned horseman who has a pleasure Walking Horse and not a show horse. When I began shoeing, I was put to work pulling front shoes from show ring Walkers and I could not believe all the weight in each shoe. We often had metal straps, nuts, and bolts to help hold the shoe on, and there were leather and composition degree pads between shoe and hoof. Your  horse's running walk should be about seven miles per hour. In the show ring, they ask for twice that speed. Hence, the heavy shoes.

 

Without actually seeing your horse's front feet, we can't say too much. It sounds as if the long "toe" may have caused a dished foot. A dish is an incurved front of the hoof wall as viewed from the side. This causes an odd weight distribution because the pastern angle is altered. It's possible that this could cause the laminae stretching. As Rich suggests, when trimming, try to keep the three pastern bones in alignment. If the front of the wall needs to be dubbed back because of dish, try to make the wall match your envisioned angle of the coffin bone, P3.

 

You have not stolen the thread. It's titled, "Ask a Farrier."

 

Sayings and Cornpone

"There's no such thing as proofreading too long, too often. or too carefully."

[3DistinctKnocks]

Thanks, guys.  I'll try to take a couple of shots of her hooves and side view.  I work nights so I'll be hitting the sack in the next hour or so.  Here's a side view that I already have.

 

Here's a shot of the biggest amount of riding we do on her right now (its too $#&% hot for anything more!!)  Sorry the feet aren't shown, but then again ya'll get to see my cute little girl.

 

And for your viewing pleasure Mr. Turley, here's a shot of my wife's uncle about to mount his ole Tenn. Walker back in the 50's

 

 

 

[Frank Turley]

...and in your 50's photo, it looks like he taught the horse to park out.

[George Geist]

I learned to shoe in the U.S. before the Brits came over and showed us their way. We would crop the heels at an angled bevel with half-round hardies and hot-file finish. I see on youtube that many of the heels are hammered to shape without a noticeable bevel. Is the beveled heel becoming obsolete?

 

Sayings and Cornpone

"Never forge weld with a horse on the floor."

     Farrier instructor Charles "Dick" Dickenson

Is a very good question and hasn't escaped my notice either.

Your post prompted me to start a thread about that subject on the other website.

George

[Charles R. Stevens]

Good news is I don't see a big cresty neck on the mare. Tho it doesn't absolutely rule out Cushing's ( insulin résistance), it's common a symptom. Like type II diabetes in humans it contributes to foot problems.
I look forward to seeing better hoof pictures, at this point It looks like the flare on the toe has led you to leave the heals a bit long, but I can't say that with certainly untile I see the side and bottom views.
I know Master Turley, I think faster than I type. I should slow down and insure that 1; I have spelled it correctly and 2; my phone hasn't substituted something that makes me look like a bigger fool than I am.
I know it's probably common knowledge, but for me it came as a surprise to learn that parking out was to make it easier for lady's to mount their tall park horses.

[Frank Turley]

George and Charles, Ref beveled heels, I posted that query on horseshoes.com a few days ago, and Jack Evers of Montana says yes, they are obsolete. He hasn't cropped and filed heels in years. He gave a formula for how to hammer finish a heel while the branch is straight, and then bend it to fit to get proper heel cover. I had other questions. Jack and I went back and forth under the "General Discussion" section.

 

Not picking on Charles about spelling. That quotation was from a Kinko's handout that I saved.

 

Sayings and Cornpone

"Rock your creaser along like an ol' P38 can opener."

     Frank Turley

[George Geist]

George and Charles, Ref beveled heels, I posted that query on horseshoes.com a few days ago, and Jack Evers of Montana says yes, they are obsolete. He hasn't cropped and filed heels in years. He gave a formula for how to hammer finish a heel while the branch is straight, and then bend it to fit to get proper heel cover. I had other questions. Jack and I went back and forth under the "General Discussion" section.

 

Not picking on Charles about spelling. That quotation was from a Kinko's handout that I saved.

 

Sayings and Cornpone

"Rock your creaser along like an ol' P38 can opener."

     Frank Turley

I like to file the bevel into a hammer finished heel anyway. Is just what I'm used to.

Another thing we don't see much of anymore is oval headstamps on plain stamped shoes. Everybody seems to use sharp rectangular ones now.

 

Good to hear hs.com had some activity. The slow miserable death of that website has been a shame.

George

[Frank Turley]

My old time mentor, Al Kremen (RIP) maintained that the oval headstamp or forepunch shape allowed the nail head to be released easier when pulling one nail at a time from heavy shoes and pads. Al shod lots of gaited horses and he always used that oval shape.

When I began hand forging toe weighted fronts for Morgans, I used the oval shape and it seemed to work best when removing shoes. As you probably know, we lifted with the pulloffs a little and then "hammered" the shoe back down with the pulloffs, thus allowing the nail head to partially protrude; then we would grab it and pull it out. To pull off the entire package as done with a regular riding horse shoe could cause the long toe to break off.

 

Sayings and Cornpone

"Don't take your horses to bed with you."

     Al Kremen

[George Geist]

That's interesting.

I was taught that it made for a better nailhole without the sharp corners. Not sure really how important that is in a horseshoe which isn't going to last forever anyway, but certainly did IMO make them much more aesthetically pleasing. Also tends to make an imperfectly stamped nailhole not look quite as bad.

 

Is interesting to see old shoe boards especially from Standardbred shoers were usually punched oval. Sharp and rectangular is a pretty recent trend. I even used to go over machine mades with an oval punch to make them look right ;)

George