Making hardies

[Ferrous Beuler]

I would like to make some hardy tools to fit my anvils. I do not know how to form the "shoulder" or "collar". What I would like to avoid is the use of a welder or the use of tubing, angle, etc. Could someone who has some experience in this area please show the rest of us the proper techniques ( B.P. perhaps) of forging the shaft and collar of hardies? Thank you very much! Dan :)

[Mills]

I don't know about a BP for forging the shank but there are BPs for drawing and fullering. Say you have a 1" hardy hole get some 1 1/4 then make a spring fuller and draw to close dimensions. Finish to your satisfaction

[MLMartin]

if you use a butcher to cut into your stock, lets say 1.5" square, cut in from all four sides curve facing down, only cut in .25" per side, then you can forge down the curved butcher side till its the same size as the butcherd down area. this will give you a nice 1" shank and since you butcherd it you will have a flat lip that sits on the anvil face, then its just to forging what ever kind of top you want on it

[Frosty]

One last step is setting the shoulder. Do this by heating the newly drawn tool and set it in the hardy hole, then drive it down with a sledge like you were heading a nail.

Do this before you forge the hardy, swage, etc. of course.

Frosty

[easilyconfused]

Here's a blueprint on what you're looking for.
BP0369

[Ferrous Beuler]

Now we're getting somewhere! I want to thank all those, Mills, Mlmartin15, Frosty(love your avatar BTW), and easilyconfused, and I hope the replies don't stop on this thread because there is a lot to be learned here of a basic nature which will help a lot of learning smiths. I have the basic makings of a blacksmith shop; Anvil, forge, post vice, hammer, tongs. As a student of blacksmithing I believe I should be learning the basic time honored tried and true methods of FORGING as has been practiced at the anvil for centuries with little change. I worked as a welder for several years and I'm not about to say that welding doesn't have it's place in the modern shop. I will say I prefer to keep my blacksmithing shop a blacksmithing shop and not blur the lines. What I am after here is a step by step procedure that one person can follow using traditional blacksmithing methods to fabricate hardy tools without resorting to reaching for the mig, stick, etc; Let's keep a hammer in one hand and tongs in the other, NO welding, as a student of BLACKSMITHING I am focused on learning BLACKSMITHING. Yes of course I understand how quick and easy it is to use a mig to fabricate a jig, time and money saved, etc. This is not about welding, this is about learning proper forging technique. Many of us don't have a welder with which to make a heading block but I believe anyone wishing to aspire to the title of blacksmith should through instruction by a learned smith in the time honored tradition, aquire the skills to forge one at the anvil by hand. As I said, I know how to weld and could make a hardy in whatever shape I choose with such conveniences as a bandsaw, an oxy acy torch, an angle grinder, etc. How would that further my knowlege of forging? I don't want to muddy the waters and blur the lines by combining the old with the new. I want to learn BLACKSMITHING. Reaching for the mig only serves to keep me from doing so. Certainly I will be using a mig in the future for the simple fact that it joins metal quickly, easily, and cheaply- yet it will NEVER be BLACKSMITHING; Use it on shop fixtures, fine, NOT on Mrs. Smith's garden gate.
Mills, yes I understand fullering/ drawing, but gaining the ability to confidently follow the procedures to form the shoulder on all four sides properly and have the hardy tool rest flush on the anvil face with a shaft correctly fitted to the anvil for which it is being made is my goal here.
Mlmartin15, "Butcher" is a term I have not yet heard in smithing, but I think I get your drift. One thing I like to do is use modelling clay to work out beforehand what I intend to do at the anvil. First I'll make a pencil sketch of an idea, then work with clay as a 3-D tangible medium to work through the steps it may take to arrive at a finished work. Once I get a grip on this forming the shoulder thing, like you said, any sort of top can be formed.
Frosty, Thank you, that is what I had in mind, but also I was thinking of the "butcher" thing, using a hot set or chisel to cut into the stock at the right place to mark the point of the shouler, but what of stock removal from there down by that method?
easilyconfused, You put me right onto the BP I was looking for. I looked in the "search" option under "making hardies" but nothing like this came up. It shows the proper technique yet involves use of a welded header which not all of us can make (those who don't have a welder) but all of us should be learning how to make with traditional BLACKSMITHING methods
Thank You ! Dan:)

[easilyconfused]

The blueprint I pulled up uses the same technique you would use on your anvil. The only difference was that they manufactured an anvil that they could use a heavier hammer to make it go faster. If you have a larger anvil that will stand upto a striker with a sledge, you can use a sledge. I've made hardies using the same technique on my anvil and my regular 3 pound hand hammer. Just takes longer is all. Same technique, just less metal moved per heat. By butchering and fullering, you can get it closer to square than the blueprint and will save you time setting the shoulder. A butcher is essentially a hot cut with the edge bevelled so that one side is flat and the other has the bevel, kind of like a wood chisel edge is set up.

[tbrforge]

having looked at the BP mentioned, I don't see anyneed to make the heading block described therein to accomplish what you want. start with square stock larger than your hardie hole. chamfer the sides and upset it in the hardie hole. THere it is, custom sized to your anvil, finish the top as you see fit. The first blacksmith had only fire and a brain, all the tools we use today including welders and lathes and mills, they came later from using tools and seeing the need for more. I personally wouldn't get stuck in the "purity" thing, just do it.

[bruce wilcock]

no one has mentiond jumping up ,to get the shoulders, i have used sq section springs unwraped a coil and jumped a swell in the middle ,inough to hold in the anvil then taken good heat and drive it with a striking hammer to form a shoulder then cut to lenghth and flattern the cutting edge

[Ten Hammers]

I make tooling for the hardy hole from time to time. I think the first thing I made was a hot cut hardy ( from an old hydraulic jack handle ). I upset the handle until it was bigger than the hole and then used the sharp dege of the anvil to strike the piece half faced and form a tenon on 3 sides ( that would start in the hardy hole ). I then forged a light taper on the end of the tenon and slapped it pretty hard into the hole ( quenching the top first to strike on ). I truthfully see no need for a sledge. Get it hot and it'll move. You will now have a shoulder on your tooling to set in the hole ( and if you slap the opposite side of the one with no shoulder you can get a bit there too ). Yes you can weld a rod stinger on the bottom of this tenon to tap tooling out if it gets stuck. This anvil was sold and the hardy went with it. My current anvil ( I guess 12-14 years now ) is listed as having a 7/8 hole but over the years that has grown to 15/16 or so ( tight ). I have a fair bit of scrapped PTO shaft ( 15/16 ) that just starts in the hole. I forge this down a bit and have a nice stem ( stinger ) to weld tooling to. Having the skills to make the tenon is great. Often times I just need another bending bar or something and no shame to me to weld tooling to a stinger. As wiser men than me have said, use traditional skills, yes but don't cut your bid time making tooling the old fashioned way when modern ( read mig, plasma and acetelyne etc.) will make you money. My 5

[ThomasPowers]

"Tradition"---Remember that *traditional* blacksmithing includes having several other people working with you to strike, hold, etc---smithing *alone* is about as accurate as a surgeon working alone in an operating room nowdays. Also remember that the triphammer is over 1000 years old now (in the tilt hammer form) and *nobody* was using mild steel before about 1850.

Two grace notes on making hardies: 1) the stem should always reach beyond the bottom of the hardy hole and be chamfered so it can be struck with the hammer to loosen it if it jams for any reason. (the chamfer so you don't rivet it in place while striking it 2) hardy holes are often not square; make your hardy so that it fits in *all* orientations so you don't have to use #1; far bertter for it to be a tad loose than to be so tight it must be driven out after use---and the hardy hole is a weak zone on old anvils and too much wedging pressure can cause catastrophic failure of the anvil heel.

[mcraigl]

Dan,
If you read the blueprint you'll understand why we went to the trouble of building the heading block. We have done several workshops now, including at the California Blacksmith's Association spring conference. I'd say we've run maybe about 20 people through. About 1/3 of them were what I'd call "proficient" with a sledge, about 1/3 were not proficient, and the remaining 1/3 had never used a sledge. We have replaced broken sledge handles as a result of these workshops. I only have one anvil, and if it's broke I'm out of business 'til I get another one. Mike-hr and I always take our full get-ups to hammer ins etc. and Mike is finally refusing to take his peddinghaus because every single ding in it from a missed hammer stroke is from someone else. My old Peter Wright wouldn't notice an additional ding here and there, but I'd really be sad if the heel got broken off of it. Now. Having said all of that. The ONLY reason for building the heading block (originally) was to protect our precious anvils from inexperienced/inept sledge hammerers. This exact same technique applies to making a hardy took on your anvil. You would be amazed how much work two guys with 8lb hammers can get done in a single heat once they have developed their skills a little. But the same thing can surely be done by a single smith with a 2 1/2 lb cross pien. It's just gonna take a while. Give it a try, it's good fun!