Frosty Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 The stainless piece threaded internally is a coupler and will work as a flare by itself. Just screw it to the end of your burner tube and it's good to go. Once you get your forge up to heat you can buy another stainless coupler and forge it ito a flare if you like. LOTS of gas forges have hand forged flares that started out as couplers or thread protectors. You're almost there. <VBG> Frosty the Lucky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Posted May 1, 2013 Author Share Posted May 1, 2013 Haha excitement time. So im contimplating getting my uncle to machine the hole in the plug but 1st wanna know if you think it can be done with a normal battery drill? The reason i thought of drilling it on a lathe is because it would be more center than a hand drill or drill press would get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 YOu CAN drill the hole in the plug with a hand drill if you're good enough HOWEVER if you have a lathe available you're far ahead doing it on the lathe. Getting the jet aligned straight down the tube is the #1 thing to get correct. I use my lathe to drill and tap the hole in my T for the jet. I don't turn it on, I hand turn it and to make sure everything is aligned as perfectly as I can get it I screw the T on the tube, put a story mark on them so I can screw them back together to the very same point. Then I drill for the jet fixture, I can't think of the drill # but I tap it 1/8" FPT. The net step is to screw the brass fitting 1/8"mpt to 1/4" flare. The IDs of these fittings are so close to the correct diameter to thread 1/4x28 for the ig tip I just bring the correct dia # drill bit with me to the supply store and pick one that's the right ID. Anyway, Once I get the T drilled and tapped, the 1/8" tap needs to stop short so the brass fitting fits snugly it's too easy to go too far so it moves. Anyway, once tapped I insert the brass fitting, then hand turning the lathe tap it 1/4"x28. I do all this without removing the burner from the lathe so everything is drilled and tapped in exactly the same position. Doing it this way I can turn out a T burner in about 15 minutes and often don't need to even tweek it to tune. Seriously I spent almost as long writing this as it'd take me to make one. I have practice though. On a last note. What you're making is commmonly known as a "Side arm" burner. What I make is a little different, instead of putting the T on the tube so there's only one air intake I put it on mine so there are two intakes so mine looks like a T with short cross arms. Hence I call mine the "T" burner. Both work well, very well they'll melt steel if you don't watch your irons. Frosty the Lucky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Posted May 1, 2013 Author Share Posted May 1, 2013 Very clever Mr.Frosty i might try that in the future. I will see if i can put it on a lathe. If not i will have to go the drill press way rather than a hand drill and make another small hole on the side for a set screw. I was thinking of having 2 set screws so that i am able to adjust the gas tube if the alignment isnt correct enough to work right. I will keep you updated once thats done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Posted May 1, 2013 Author Share Posted May 1, 2013 Doubled post. My bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 Doubled post. My bad. A doube post?!? Bad, BAD blacksmith, you owe us a box of donuts. <grin> Frosty the Lucky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 Very clever Mr.Frosty i might try that in the future. I will see if i can put it on a lathe. If not i will have to go the drill press way rather than a hand drill and make another small hole on the side for a set screw. I was thinking of having 2 set screws so that i am able to adjust the gas tube if the alignment isnt correct enough to work right. I will keep you updated once thats done. A drill ress is a lot better than by hand. for fine tweeks of the jet, I simply use a screw driver to gently bend it. If you leave the line off the back, you can sight down the tube at light shining through and eyeball it's alignment. If that doesn' work, you can hook it up to water and judge by the stream. What's this Mr. thing, am I in trouble? The only time Mother called me Mr. was just before the wooden spoon came out of the drawer. <grimace> Frosty the Lucky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Posted May 1, 2013 Author Share Posted May 1, 2013 Haha this time its for showing respect to a fellow hammerer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Posted May 2, 2013 Author Share Posted May 2, 2013 Thank you Frosty for all the help you gave heres my latest progress, i finaly got a nice blue stable flame and man is it louder than i expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Posted May 2, 2013 Author Share Posted May 2, 2013 What can i say guys? Im so happy to finaly have a working forge. As you can see its fully capable of welding heat. Still need a set screw to hold the gas jet tube in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Posted May 2, 2013 Author Share Posted May 2, 2013 Last question, is the flame meant to be coming out of the entrance so much? Not sure if moving the gas tube into the burner housing more or less to adjust correctly. The red bar is an attemp at damascus but need an opening at the back to slide through. I tried putting the burner into the port closest to the entrance of the forge but the heat of the flames exiting the entrance kept igniting the gas in the venturi part so i had to move it to the rear port but the problem i had was that all the heat was concentrated right at the back of the forge so i couldnt get much heat into the full billet, the front of the billet seems to be welded pritty gud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 You're very welcome. The flame is near perfect in the free air pics. The flame coming out the front door of your forge is called "dragon's breath" it's a bit excessive but you can turn the burner down by reducing the pressure at the regulator. the amount and color of the dragon's breath will tell you how your air fuel mixture is working. Get it just a little pinker and it's just right. you want it slightly rich, (reducing) to prevent scaling in the forge. Hot steel will scale as soon as it hits open air but you do NOT want the forge scaling it. You need to have the burner away from the opening or exhaust will cause it to sputter or as you've noticed cause pre-ignition. You could put a deflector on it but that's a might work might not thing. You have good heat in the bar, you're golden. You don't need to heat more steel than you can forge in one heat or you'll just burn the carbon out and lose steel to scale to no purpose. You'll need a pass through but you don't even want to heat more than 5-6" at a time till it's time to heat treat. Looking good. Well done. Frosty the Lucky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Posted May 3, 2013 Author Share Posted May 3, 2013 So from you just said in order to get dragons breath pinker i should attach a flat on the air intake and cut it off abit and i right? Some of the layers delaminated probly due to the not having enuf heat as it was i mixter of ban saw blade, pallet strapping and mild steel. I did the touch test to make sure it was at welding heat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Posted May 5, 2013 Author Share Posted May 5, 2013 Wow i didnt realise how fast flux eats through refractnry cement and kaowool, question, will it be fine if i just put more cement over the holes on the forge floor to cover up the damage the flux made or do i have to reinsulate the whole forge again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 So from you just said in order to get dragons breath pinker i should attach a flat on the air intake and cut it off abit and i right? Some of the layers delaminated probly due to the not having enuf heat as it was i mixter of ban saw blade, pallet strapping and mild steel. I did the touch test to make sure it was at welding heat. You can make a choke late if you want but I use little strips of aluminum foil if I need to adjust. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Wow i didnt realise how fast flux eats through refractnry cement and kaowool, question, will it be fine if i just put more cement over the holes on the forge floor to cover up the damage the flux made or do i have to reinsulate the whole forge again? Yes it does. Silicates are susceptible to caustics and borax at 2,500f is really caustic. It goes through Kaowool like hot water through cotton candy. Hardening refractories against flux is one really good reason to coat it all with ITC-100, it's IR reflective qualities make it a home run. If you can't or don't want to buy ITC-100 coating it all with kaolin slip will make it a lot more flux resistant. Kaolin is a high alumina ceramic, porcelain by common name. Just mix with enough water it's about like thin latex paint. Wet the bricks and wool before applying it and lay it on in thin layers. Let it dry thoroughly and fire it. First fire just a few minutes, say 5. You are NOT trying to bring it to color, you're just bisk firing it so there's absolutely no moisture in it anywhere. Now, wet it and apply a second coat and let it dry. Bick fire again and let it cool completely Second fireig bring it to low red and let it cool again. Now it's ready to rock and roll, let er rip. It won't be flux-proof but it will hold up WAY longer. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Posted May 5, 2013 Author Share Posted May 5, 2013 Ah ok il try that then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 I forgot to say you can patch the fire brick floor with bentonite clay, commonly available as CLAY kitty litter. Don't use USED kitty litter! You can lay the clay DRY in the holes while it's hot and it'll melt in and stick. Kitty litter is granular so it stays pretty well so the next time you fire the forge it'll just melt in. It seems to be pretty heat and flux resistant. It's what our metal caster member uses to plug the gate on the cupola melter and patch his forge. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Posted May 6, 2013 Author Share Posted May 6, 2013 Lol thats the thing, i didnt have a fire brick floor. It was just kao wool coated in fire cement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Posted May 7, 2013 Author Share Posted May 7, 2013 Ordering 2 fire bricks at 25mm thick tomorow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Posted June 2, 2013 Author Share Posted June 2, 2013 Hey Frosty you mentioned using kitty litter for my forge floor, is there any specific ingredient to look for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Yes, bentonite clay. I'd never even considered it even seeing guys on the net have been using it. One of the guys in the local club is a caster, runs the iron our here every June and the clay they plug the tap hole with is bentonite and they patch places in the cupola with it too. Clay kitty litter is usually bentonite, it'll be on the label somewhere. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Posted June 2, 2013 Author Share Posted June 2, 2013 Ah ok sweet thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knots Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 I protect there fractory fiber insulation of my forge floors with a slab of groged fire clay as follows: My forge floors are made up of fire clay heavily grogged with fire brick with a bit of graphite added for wet workability. This mixture is rolled into a 3/4" deep scrap lumber frame nailed onto a piece of plywood to give it a uniform thickness. When dried to leather hard this sheet is transferred to the forge and placed on top of the fiber insulation. Since leather hard it takes on the shape of the forge bottom. When dry the forge is fired. The bottom fires hard, in place, with that first firing. This method is especially useful for pipe forges since the forge bottoms are curved. It should work equally well for a flat bottom forge and has proven to be very durable over time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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