Savage Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Hey guys hope you all having a good day today, well for starters im Michael or as my friends call me The Savage. Ive only done about a year at a blacksmith school and enjoyed it alot but after mucking around with knives i have realized my talents and interest lye more towards the bladesmithing side and have made 15 or so knives in my old coal forge. Its become too difficult to find resources for coal in my area as i moved right into town and solid fuel isnt really allowed so i descided on the gas forge route. So to make a long and time wasting story short ive made the forge and its completely ready to start except for my burner, now i am sure you guys get this on a daily basis but try to bare with me. My burner design is a venturi type, when i light it and add more fuel it seems like the added adjustment of fuel makes the flame blow away from the burner tip instead of stablising into a nice blue cone shape. I will add pics and posibly a vid link of it asap. Any help is greatly appreciated as im so anxious to get it going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbieforge Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 You need to show some pictures of your burner, and share some details of your design. Also post some links to any articles or guides you followed to build your burner. If a burner doesn't perform properly, it is usually due to simple reasons, such as not following a design exactly. A common place where people skimp is the burner flare. The rest of the burner can usually be made using a drill press and other simple shop tools, but the flare can be a bit of a catch-22: it's easy to make a flare if you have a forge with a working burner, but you need a flare to make a working burner. :-) Show us some photos of your burner showing the details of your construction, and we'll go from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Posted April 28, 2013 Author Share Posted April 28, 2013 As you can see its as ready as could ever be. As for my burner i didnt really follow any plans in specific for the burner just the basic understanding of how they all work. I have a feeling that im not running the right regulator. Im using an argon one used for welding. I wil upload my vid of it soon, just having some network problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 That's not a naturally aspirated (venturi) burner with the manifold. Put a blower on it and YES, get a proper propane regulator. 0-50psi is pretty common and more than adequate for the job. There's no shame to at least looking at working plans. That's how I cook, recipes are guides more than rules. you do however have to know the basics of how a thing works. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Posted April 29, 2013 Author Share Posted April 29, 2013 I was planning on attatching the venturi burner to the manifold but changed my mind to just the burner. Wil upload a pic of the burner as soon as i get home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 Most home made NA burners don't do well through a manifold it takes a full length 12% taper on the tube like you see in commercial burners to reliably have oomf to handle the back pressure. The forge looks good. How many cu/in in the chamber? the general rule of thumb is one well tuned 3/4" burner for each 300-350 cu/in. That'll usually get you to a welding heat. Frosty The Lucky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Posted April 29, 2013 Author Share Posted April 29, 2013 I wil get u the measurements once i am home. I went to a welding store and the women told me i cant use their regulators because it will freeze my 9kg bottle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Posted April 29, 2013 Author Share Posted April 29, 2013 Ok not sure how the whole cu/in thing works but heres the measurements in inches, 2.5x3x11.5 inches. And finaly i got a pic of the burner. I also went around to a few plumers places and looked for prices on the parts needed to make a z burner style burner and its pritty pricey for me at the moment so ill stick to my design and if it doesnt work then i will save towards buying the fittings needed to make a z burner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Posted April 29, 2013 Author Share Posted April 29, 2013 heres the pictures Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Posted April 29, 2013 Author Share Posted April 29, 2013 Ok from what google told me on cubic inches my inside the chamber holds 86.25cu/in Most home made NA burners don't do well through a manifold it takes a full length 12% taper on the tube like you see in commercial burners to reliably have oomf to handle the back pressure. The forge looks good. How many cu/in in the chamber? the general rule of thumb is one well tuned 3/4" burner for each 300-350 cu/in. That'll usually get you to a welding heat. Frosty The Lucky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 Okay, you need a proper burner, there are plenty of plans here on IFI. what you have isn't going to work, it doesn't mix the gas and air before it hits the forge. If you go to the Alaska section of the groups section at the bottom of IFI home page, you can ask Tristan about making 1/2" T burners. He has it down as well or better than anybody I know. Seriously you can have a porper burner for $5-$7 in Alaska and everything here is shipped in so it's expensive. The last 3/4" burner I made cost just over $10 and that's 4x what you need. A 1/2" T burner will be just the thing. You need a propane regulator, most welding suppliers don't carry the right kind, try a propane supplier or heating supplier. I get my stuff at the plumbing supply up the road and my regulators from the same company that delivers our cooking propane. Some hardware stores carry both but tend to be more expensive. Oh yeah, you will need to go to a welding supply to get the 0.023" mig contact tips used for the gas jet. These burners are more complicated to describe than build. Seriously. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Posted April 29, 2013 Author Share Posted April 29, 2013 xxxx. Awell atleast i tried, im in the land of the long white cloud(new zealand) so prices may vairy but i got an insurance pay back so ive got an extra 160 bux to play with. The regulator on the other hand is becoming a mission to find the right one but i will see what google says about the places near by. Sweet so i think i am going to go with the z burner style but with a T section instead of a Y secion as no one here stocks them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Posted April 30, 2013 Author Share Posted April 30, 2013 I remember seing a 0-10 psi regulator on a site we kiwis call trademe. Would that be good enough for my 1/2 inch burner and my 86cu/in forge? If so then please let me kno asap as theres only one left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Posted April 30, 2013 Author Share Posted April 30, 2013 Got this at lunch for 13 bux all up. Not as much as the 3/4 inch stuff, hope the reducer will work as a flair as i dont have a forge or gas torch to forge a nice flair. Planning on drilling a hole in the center of the plug and use my 10mm stainless tube to slide in and out the plug to be able to tune it better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Posted April 30, 2013 Author Share Posted April 30, 2013 New 1/2 in burner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 A 0-10psi ahould be enough to run a 1/2" burner in your forge. Keep your eyes open though. Bell reducers don't work well as flares, they enlarge too abruptly and create bad turbulence. What I use rather than a flare is a "thread protector". these look the same as a pipe coupler but are too thin to meet code as all they do is protect threads in shipment. Here plumbing suppliers have boxes filling till they're in the way enough to haul them off to the scrap yard. The guys up the road from me give me however many I need, Only two at one time so far. I buy all my plumbing stuff from them and am often asking off the wall questions trying to figure out a new "invention." One of the trickiest prts of tuning these burners is getting the jet aligned as straightly down the burner tube as possible. The straighter the better. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Posted April 30, 2013 Author Share Posted April 30, 2013 Thanx frosty for the help much accepted. I was planning on filling the hollow part of the plug with sum cement glue for pvc pipes so the tube i slide in it wil have more material to hold it center. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 You're more than welcome. Where are you planning on putting pvc cement? NOT on the burner or forge at all certainly. There is NO place on a gas forge safe to put plastics let alone glue, it will melt then catch fire. Please explain what you want to do and we'll figure something out. I'm sure someone has already and as soon as we know what's needed the perfected method will be obvious. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Posted April 30, 2013 Author Share Posted April 30, 2013 Sorry, what i meant about the plastic cement was that i will fit the plug with it. Ill upload a pic of it and a drawing explaining it visiualy as i find i hard to explain. And also i looked through my tool box and found a .035 mig tip(.9mm) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Posted April 30, 2013 Author Share Posted April 30, 2013 Heres the pics of the plug i meantioned, the white stuff is cement glue and the paper is my design i plan to follow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Do NOT use the cement, this just isn't safe. If necessary drill and tap the side of the plug for a set screw. It's darned easy and most importantly safe. There is no place on your forge safe to use plastics. The burner will act as a chimney as soon as you turn it off and will get HOT. Lose the goo brother, there aren't so many of us we can afford to lose one if we can help it. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Posted April 30, 2013 Author Share Posted April 30, 2013 Wow man i didnt think of that 1, thanx for warning me about it. Yea ill get a set screw and tap in that case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Beamish Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Just buy a burner from Rex Price at Hybridburners.com or another reputable manufacturer and use a rated lpg variable regulator , gas rated fittings and hoses and use the forge in a well ventilated area. I do understand doing it yourself can be fun from an experimental point of view and you might save yourself some money. It can also be very dangerous. I know the other forum users are well meaning and plenty have built their own but that doesn't mean their set up as safe as it should be. What does the local fire code say on this type of gear? Where do you stand from an insurance perspective if something goes bang? Would you build your own oxy torch and try to run it off any old regulator and fittings? Be safe, keep your family safe. Cheers, Bruce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Posted May 1, 2013 Author Share Posted May 1, 2013 I see your point but the hose, fittings and regulator are all brand new only got yesterday. Ive spend to much cash on this to tttrn around and buy one. I tried doing it out of my head and it didnt work so now im using the same plan as the z burner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Posted May 1, 2013 Author Share Posted May 1, 2013 All the thread protectors here are plastic so i got this instead. Its just a short section of 1/2 inch nipple which wil have the flair on it and a stainless nipple with threads on inside to hold it on the rest of the burner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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