Gas forge opened on propane

[BANAN]

I made a gas fireplace that will function as a traditional furnace coke. Allows heating of bulky items, as well as small parts in a short time, if we bet it bricks. The film reheated 30x30 mm square bar in ten minutes. 

 

[doc]

Great forge! Love the box tube manifold. What size jet or orifice are you using for the propane?

[ironwolfforgeca]

Intresting set up !! :)   How about a pic of it mines the bricks in the forge, to see how you set up the fire box

[Dodge]

yes, please more pics of burner set-up and introduction to fire chamber. Intriguing design!!

[BANAN]

This way it is looking out without bricks

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=537157233003351&set=pb.100001272376175.-2207520000.1365654190&type=3&theater

[BANAN]

LPG tank, woven ceramic, three chamotte bricks, some sheet metal air heater, burner serial production and finished my mobile gas furnace for iron events :rolleyes:

[Grzegorz Krasiński]

If my good friend Banan is here I have to post something here too :)

Here is my first gas forge, I still need to improve it but its almost ready.

[Frosty]

Powerful looking forge Banan, very effective. My only suggestion would be to reverse the air belt so the hose is behind the forge and out of danger from a hot piece of steel.

 

Well done.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

[BANAN]

My mobile received a new burner stove, so just to work with the blower. See how it performs. 

 

[BANAN]

The new incarnations of the burner Banana. Thepower from the compressor side of the gas occurs. In the photograph test firing on natural gas. it promises to be very promising.

[BANAN]

Natural gas forge :rolleyes:

[Broomhead]

Banan, I'm not sure what the residential pressure for natural gas is in Poland, but is that what you're feeding from? Can I see what type of burner you are using?

[BANAN]

Pressure natural gas in Poland is 20 millibar. I use a torch of his own design from a photograph two posts above. In this burner, air is fed axially from the compressor through a nozzle, and a diagonal tube is fed gas. tube is not completed any nozzle. One can also use a burner with a fan blowing the film as the post 9 except that instead of the nozzle tubes for propane, without introducing tube nozzle for natural gas. The burners are my design.

[BANAN]

Many have seen the gas forge. I would like to show you forge., Which was established on Polish Forum Blacksmith as model

[ianinsa]

Nice!

[BANAN]

Urgently I am watching actions of new builders of gas hearths and with distress I state that they didn't break the certain stereotypes concerning the structure of burners. When I started my experiments with gas, I aspired for creating the strong, compact and economic burner. Over 200 burners made by me are heating iron up not only in Poland, but also also in England, Scotland, Germany, Portugal and Belarus. Many blacksmiths from Russia made also burners on the basis of observations of my burners. I will give a few links to films still for documentation where in stoves my burners are applied.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvHDp1tscac https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDR_w0RCtTk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWASmKTW_wk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVrK00sVkC0

[Dodge]

Not sure why but I can't open any of the pics. I get the following message:

 

Sorry, there is a problem

Cannot find the page you requested

Error code: 2T187/2

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[Frosty]

Thanks for the Youtube videos Banan. We call that a gun or blown burner. Can you explain the wide run of the air tube after it passes under the forge body? Doesn't that lose what preheat the air gains from contact with the bottom of the forge?

All in all it looks to be burning well, a nice forge burner.

Frosty The Lucky.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Frosty

[BANAN]

Under the floor of the furnace is integrated recuperator heats the air. Gas falling into the hot wind increases its volume, therefore, it need less. From here indication of the regulator close to zero. Heated is a nitrogen, which is 70% air. This results in an increase in the flame temperature. Forced airflow makes it possible to regulate the flame of reduction through neutral to oxidizing agent.

[Frosty]

I understand a recuperative forge, people have been making them for a couple centuries. My question was about the LONG run of pipe in the open air after it leaves the very short heat exchanger section. Being as it's exposed to room temperature air for a greater distance than the heat exchanger the temperature of the air will have fallen possibly even close to ambient.

And no, it's not expanding the nitrogen that makes preheating air more efficient in for a burner operation, it's not having to waste BTUs heating the nitrogen in the flame. However there's a factor you perhaps haven't taken into account and that's preheating the intake air with a heat exchanger draws heat from the furnace chamber faster than simple conduction to ambient would.

You can't make more BTUs than you have. Amongst the commercial propane burner makers preheating the air is almost never done. They get much greater performance by preheating the propane. It enhances mixing and makes for a more complete combustion.

Propane is a funny gas, it ACTS like a mist and is one of the few that will actually separate if left calm. commercial gun burner makers introduce propane into the blower intake to maximize turbulence so it mixes more completely. Introducing it like you do before turning a corner helps but not like introducing it into the blower intake.

Preheating the propane itself up to the range of 1,000f causes it to react violently when it hits the air stream and it cools below it's flash temp well before it reaches a combustible ratio. This causes a more complete mixing and more efficient combustion.

Just pointing to a gauge that says it's running at low pressure doesn't mean much. It isn't the PSIG it's the carrying capacity at pressure that matters. The orifice of your gas jet is large so it has to be running at very low pressure or it'd be running VERY rich. I get 350 u/in to high yellow heat with a burner that has a jet 0.035" dia and runs at 7-20psi. If the jet was 0.025" it'd have to run at 14-40psi to introduce the same amount of propane into the fire per second OR if I was running a 0.045" jet it'd need to run between 3-10psi for the same amount of propane. Just the pressure doesn't tell us anything useful without knowing the orifice size.

I'm not knocking your burners they appear to operate well, they just aren't special. Folk have been building burners just as efficient or more so for more than a century. I looked through the patent servers in the 1980's when I was trying to come up with an efficient home built burner. I settled on naturally aspirated burners simply so I wouldn't need electricity to run my forge.

Frosty The Lucky.

[BANAN]

Yes you are right, the pressure gauge should be read in conjunction with the gas nozzle diameter. In my large burners I use jets of 1.2 millimeters and 1.0 millimeters smaller. The gas passing through the larger nozzle with a small pressure not cools as passing by a smaller die with high pressure. I did my first burner like so many on this forum atmospheric. 11 kg gas cylinder was sufficient for 8-9 hours. Burners currently used with recuperation and air blowing the same gas bottle is enough for 13 hours of operation with a large burner and 15 hours of operation with a small burner.