Joel OF Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 I'm aiming this at folks in Britain specifically - what "category" does blacksmithing fall into? I mean for the sake of the beaurocrats/local government/council/building planners/general jobsworths and all the types that want to squeeze a quid out of you. Is it a rural craft? Agricultural? Engineering? Industrial? For example if you clash with the council is there a "category" that's best to claim blacksmithing falls under? I'd imagine it'd depend on what it is you make, what scale you work at and what they don't like about what you're doing that would determine how much you could back up your claim, but if don't specialise and make bespoke items from gates to arrow heads, then I guess you're really up the creek? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 A lot depends on your location, smokeless zones and other factors, if you do it as a hobby, then it is not too much of a problem, as for starting a professional shop, then it can be a minefield.It also depends on what processes you are using, some industrial estates do not allow welding and forges strangely enough, traffic access too can be a problem, especially if you are trying to start a 'greenfield' situation.Converting exisitng farm outbuildings may be acceptable, where a new barn/building may not be.I would suggest a chat with the local authorities before getting too involved financially. Depending on your attitude you may be pleasantly surprised with help and cooperation from some individuals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basher Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 blacksmithing is light industrial for most applications. However "artists studio" or workshop could be a better route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNJC Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Common sense already posted above. I was involved in a fair number of planning / licensing applications (professionally in my ‘real’ job). I think that before you approach the council you would be well advised to look at their ‘strategic’ (Ha!) plan for local development. And then, from the start, frame your application around whatever will fit best with their plan, be it as light industrial, a rural craft, a creative art or what have you. Once you have got something you think they will like, follow John’s suggestion and have a chat with some of the staff at the planning dep’t – face to face if possible. Don’t waste money on legal advice, or from any other ‘expert’ regarding the paperwork; it is usually bulky, but it isn’t complicated and the council’s staff are there to help you through it – get some tax back! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel OF Posted February 20, 2013 Author Share Posted February 20, 2013 Cheers for the tips. I'm basically trying to figure out what my best tactics are for defending my little smithy in case anyone complains to the council. My smithy is in my parents' field in an area of outstanding natural beauty, in an agricultural area and has a footpath running through it...which basically means anyone can see it. Cutting a long story short, a local has a grudge against my Dad and it's only a matter of time till he gets wind of it and objects to the council. Luckily my Dad's an architect and knows all the ins and outs of planning applications, restrospective applications and so forth so I'm not short of advice there, it's just how I can justify my blacksmithing if the worst should happen. Ironically we're about the only people down our road that don't have horses or I'd say I shoed my own horses/it was a stable. I think buying some large woven hurdles to create a screen is a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenbeast Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 interesting timing, i'm also on parents farm land, currently in an existing building but i need to expand. My step-dad voiced concerns about the planning we have here (agricultural) and that i might give thought to what would happen if i invested in a decent sized dedicated building and the neighbours/planning office weren't too keen, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNJC Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Are you a 'sole trader', if so, it would make your position much more tenable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel OF Posted February 21, 2013 Author Share Posted February 21, 2013 I'm just a hobby blacksmith. I'm kinda re-building my smithy at the minute, I'm re-shaping it from a single pitch shack into a cruck/A frame proper shed made with local coppiced chestnut posts...I like the "artist" workshop claim and hopefully the fact that I've designed/built it sympathetically using local sourced wood from local woodsmen blah blah blah will help my cause if it ever comes to verbal fisty cuffs with the council. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNJC Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Hmm... I was under the impression that you were doing things on a (semi) commercial basis. If it's a hobby, unless you are creating a significant nuisance via noise or fumes, there is no chance of being told to stop at all. Given the location and distance from a neighbour I'd say that you've nothing to worry about. The footpath is an irrelevance, if your 'friend' - or anyone else - can only experience a nuisance by stopping on the footpath across your field (which theoreticaly they should not do, since it is a right of way with no right to stop for any extended period) it is not a nuisance, since they are imposing it upon themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel OF Posted February 21, 2013 Author Share Posted February 21, 2013 Good point, I can feel a worthwhile arguement formulating. Thanks very much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan P. Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I had this problem, but in the middle of London. The problem was not the council but a group of unpleasant neighbours, people who were gentrifying the area and didn't want the riff-raff down the mews at the back of their houses. Now, in fairness, the riff-raff in question were a bit like the cast of "Pirates of the Caribbean", except not fun for children. And there was a guy who made and rented 7' tall speakers for concerts and festivals, and obviously people would want to try them out, you know, to see how loud they were. I can see how that would be annoying. Anyway, the council were actually very helpful to us, but as a blacksmith it would be quite difficult I think to escape "light industrial" classification. As it panned out, the opposite side of the mews, the side with the speaker guy, the motorbike mechanic, the jerk-pot fabricators, the guy who turned up once every couple of weeks and filled the air with unidentified toxic fumes, the bootleg warehouse, and some men who we thought might be growing ganja, turned out to be historically light industrial, so they were all okay. Our side turned out to have originally been stables, which nobody could work out what zoning it was, so we were okay too, in the end! Not any help, I know, just an anecdote I wanted to share. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomK Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 Hay guys im new hear and looking to get in too the trade. iv got no experiance. exept for some welding ( on my car - where i got the idea from ). and im look for more info on blacksmithing eg what it involves and what you make, any help would be greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 Hi Tom, welcome to the site, and a good choice to learn more about the craft. Whereabouts in the UK are you? Check out our guild's website to see what we can offer you, also try to get some hands on tuition/experience with someone near to you. Good luck and enjoy your new journey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Blythin Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 Dan P.: I have a quick question for you re: working in London... For anyone wanting to set-up shop in the city, would it make a difference if you were a member of the Worshipful Company? This is entirely for my own curiosity, as I'm interested in the history behind such organizations. My understanding behind the history of the companies, were that their members were freemen who had been granted 'Freedom of the City' - essentially free-reign to carry out business in your profession or trade. Could a member, if doing business within the city, essentially tell their complaining neighbors to get bent? And does zoning still play into it? Again, sorry if this is off topic. I know this is specific to London - and is just for my own curiosity. I find modern hold-overs of medieval laws to be fascinating. Cheers, Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel OF Posted March 16, 2013 Author Share Posted March 16, 2013 Dan - The gentrifying sounds familiar and boring but otherwise it sounds like your were in a pretty cool area. I love spotting workshops and lock-ups like that in London, like under railway arches etc. Like the sort of locations they had in old Prime Suspect episodes. Neil - Although I don't know the answer to your question I very much doubt that being a member of the Company holds and sway, not because the Company isn't highly regarded, just because noisy neighbours really do get clamped down on in Britain. Remember Britain is a fraction of the US and Canada and especially in a city like London we're a lot more bunched up and people are very precious about the peace and quiet of their own home, and the Environment Agency and councils do follow up complaints regardless of who you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan P. Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 Kurgan- It was, at times, a very cool place to work, at other times, extremely tedious. Neil- Further to what Kurgan writes, the Corporation of The City of London is a fascinating and sometimes sinister medieval hold-over, and some of the Companies are very powerful in The City (and therefore the UK and the world), and some have an active part in controlling the trades they represent. The WCB is not one of those companies, and has little participation in blacksmithing, save the awarding of various prizes, a tradition going back no further than the 1970's or 80's. PS Neil, "The City" refers to a small part of London, which is largely now the financial district. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel OF Posted March 16, 2013 Author Share Posted March 16, 2013 I'll bet. Driving through places like Lewisham is great when you spend 99% of your time in a staid middle class town, but there's always a point when you think...better wind the windows up now. Wondered what a policeman was guarding on the pavement last time I drove through there, as I went past I could see it was a pool of blood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Blythin Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 Very interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomK Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 john B - hi im located in n.wales but i can get as far as livepool easy enough mancester at a push. the websites bean realy help full but i think i need some hands on experiance. do you know any won in the are that can help ? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 john B - hi im located in n.wales but i can get as far as livepool easy enough mancester at a push. the websites bean realy help full but i think i need some hands on experiance. do you know any won in the are that can help ? thanks Hi Tom, not specifically for North Wales, but South Wales and Hereford area have a number there who would probably assist you, I suggest looking into Yellow pages, they list 12 plus smiths in the North Wales area, contact them and see if they can help, there are also some members on this site who may be near to you, and you may be able to arrange a get together with them. Good luck and stick with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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