forgemaster Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Hi All Was mucking around with an about 1cwt Alldays on the weekend, and I can't seem to find any info on which direction the flywheel should rotate, does it matter with these little tackers, we tried both ways seemed same o same o. Anyone have any thoughts. I looked through both my Alldays manuals but there was nothing there and checked the rotation of our 2cwt (anti clockwise when viewed from the back of the hammer). I know that the masseys over 5cwt have to rotate in a set direction otherwise the oil pump will not pump. Ta guys. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewOC Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 'Spose pull the Onion pump out and whiz it 'round to see if they prefer one way. a. ps I saw a trusty Alldays on Sunday as well; just someone we both know. pps u might be picking up bags of white powdery stuff from him soon- I got them off the stack for ya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonjic Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 I *think* they rotate so if you drop somthing between the gear and pinion from the top it will be thrown out , not pulled through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 (edited) You are talking original gear driven rather than belt drive conversion aren't you? I could not find any guidance either so I set both my 1cwt and 3cwt Alldays up so that the motor tried to push it self down onto the ground rather than wind itself up around the fly wheel, seemed more stable that way. The torque and pulse was enough to get quite a bit of movement otherwise. I have a feeling I may have later found an arrow somewhere which confirmed this....lost in the mists of time... So looking at the flywheel from the flywheel side with the motor mounted behind / to the left, the flywheel was turning clockwise, which would agree with John's view. I am a bit puzzled by your comment "2cwt (anti clockwise when viewed from the back of the hammer)" If you have the flywheel facing you at the back of the hammer that does not sound like an Alldays/Pilkington, their cranks runs transverse, across the hammer. I know you have Masseys which have the crank running front to back is this a with slides 1cwt Massey you are talking about? Or just that you compared rotation direction with your 2cwt Massey? Alan Edited February 18, 2013 by blackersmith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basher Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 I run my 200 clockwise for the reasons mentioned above . the 300 pumped oil and showed positive oil pressure turned clockwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 I run my 200 clockwise for the reasons mentioned above . the 300 pumped oil and showed positive oil pressure turned clockwise. The oil pump on my 3cwt Alldays comprises a plunger with a roller on the end which follows a cam lobe on the crank shaft. The lobe is symmetrical and so it pumps which ever way the flywheel turns. I took the back plate off to see if I could fathom out a right and wrong way! It did not help in my case. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forgemaster Posted February 19, 2013 Author Share Posted February 19, 2013 Ok sorry should have given more info, this hammer has grease lubrication with nipples on the main bearings and a grease cap on the big end,and does'nt have an oiler so the oil pump solution is moot, but the crank is not on the centre line of the air pump, therefore it has a motion more like a shaper, ie which ever way the flywheel revolves affect the beat of the hammer. The crank is towards the rear end of the hammer in relation to the cylinder, (hammers have a front,(where you normally stand to forge) a back where all the scrap and tools end up, a front end, normally to the left of where you normally stand at the front, and a back end, to your right of the front where you normally stand. So if the flywheel on this hammer turns anticlockwise (when veiwed from the back of the hammer (not the back end)) piston will go up slower than it comes down meaning the tup will go down slower than up, reverse (clockwise) piston up quick, down slow, tup down quick, with a slower up stroke. If you understand the motion of an old gear driven shaper you 'll relate to the motion I'm describing. (A shaper strokes quicker on the back stroke (return stroke) than the forward stroke which is when the tool is doing the cutting) Ta for all the replies so far Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 (edited) Thoroughly confused now with back and back end! I stand either in front or to the left or right depending on which hammer I am using for either tooling or hammer location reasons. So I keep it simple with front, back and then left or right when viewed from the front! I do not remember noticing the Alldays off set crank in all the days I spent poring over the drawings before installation or in all the years I have had the hammers! What a confession. Mine have both been running in clockwise direction since I have had them (25 plus years) so even if wrong it does not seem to be disastrous! I would prefer to have the compression stroke with the con rod most aligned with the axis of the cylinder...but the motors definitely moved about in that direction...hmmmm. Possibly it is to do with the relative efficiencies of compression and vacuum on a single acting hammer? The vacuum stroke takes longer in my configuration. Ah.... I have just reread the installation brochure...I have it in .pdf form if anyone is interested...it happens to mention in 6th paragraph first page ...that on motor driven hammers you should graphite and grease the gearing before fitting the gear guard... Then "Belt Driven Hammers are fitted with fast and loose pulleys and belt striking gear and may be run in either direction." So I guess it does not matter as far as the crankshaft and conrod are concerned, so revert back to John's safety point and my wobbly motor reason. Alan Edited February 20, 2013 by blackersmith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 It would be interesting to know if there was a noticeable advantage power wise with either rotation. It can only be a few degrees of crankshaft rotation difference say 175˚ in one direction and 185˚ the other. My clockwise direction takes the quicker 175˚ on the compression/upstroke which does mean the acceleration is slightly more rapid and thus a faster tup downward speed....which should be advantageous. We will have to ask everyone we know with an Alldays to see if they have noticed a difference and which direction theirs go. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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