zach124816 Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 I started with 7 Quarters but they split on my so i decided to do 2. the first turned out better so i put a leather string on it and put it on my keyring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenylittlemetalguy Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Fun stuff isn't it? I have found that if I keep them at red heat or hotter when I hit them that the stack stays together much better. The nickel content is fussy and brittle when it is cold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zach124816 Posted January 30, 2013 Author Share Posted January 30, 2013 yes it is. getting addicting already haha. How far should I compress them at sweating heat to know they are all welded? I know different amounts need more or less but if im sticking around 1.50$ about how far? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinobi Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 you will have to inspect the edges and work it a bit before you can really say with confidence that the joins are complete, iv squished many a stack of quarters only to have them fall apart into a pile of significantly thinner, blacker quarters :angry: dont consolidate it so much in one go that you start to see the sides bulge out and split the seams at the edges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenylittlemetalguy Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 the critical part is keeping air out of the stack. any air in between layers while hot will without fail cause an issue. It is possible to get a good weld in one heat, but once you start consolidating it is easy to break them open. I agree with chinobi, slow and steady on consolidation.Copper with real silver layers is much easier to move around once the weld is made. Try it sometime if you can,lots more fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zach124816 Posted January 31, 2013 Author Share Posted January 31, 2013 i tried with nickels and it looked kind of like a mill scale was forming and cracking. is that expected? then after sanding i saw no copper. did i melt it all out? when i trield to drill a hole in it all my layers split. and what temps am i looking for? if i were to put a piece of steel similar in size what color would it turn? the quarters turned out a lot better but i started with fewer. better welds and color. what about brass and cooper? how hard is that compared. should i stick to quarters till i am more confident or would experimenting with more metals help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert A Rasch Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 The nickel is made of a homogenous blend of 75% copper and 25% nickel, so you wouldn't see any elemental copper, unlike the clad coins. Guys, please forgive any misspellings the font used is so small (for my eyes) that I have hard time making out vertical letters that are adjacent to each other and it messes me up. thanks! Albert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinobi Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 as Albert said nickels are a homogenous alloy, not clad like quarters and dimes. stacking and fusing a bunch of nickels will just give you a significantly thicker nickel :) hard to guess what they scale-like formation you observed without pictures. i have not had nickel scale up and flake off on me, but most of my experience is with wire and lower temps. the temperature of fusion will vary wildly depending on the specific combination of metals used, and trying to bond nickel to nickel would be pretty close (if not at) the melting temperature of nickel, which is pretty bloody high (something like 1450 C if memory serves). also, unless you have access to an accurately controllable (read electric kiln with a good metering system) or a pyrometer i wouldnt split hairs about exact temperatures. look at where the layers meet and watch for a kind of flash or a shiny/sweaty looking stripe to form in between, thats the indicator that a bond has formed. bear in mind, it is quite subtle and pretty difficult to see. you will probably end up taking your stack of quarters out at the point that you realize the copper is leaking out from the other side before you actually notice anything like what you are looking for :ph34r: thats kinda how it worked (ok, works) for me. i would avoid involving steel at this stage, it is much harder than the other metals, making working the billet after it bonds very difficult with hand tools. i have a few designs that require the use of steel and copper, but i plan to leave it pretty much as stacked because i dont think ill be able to work it well. search around on the site for 'patina' or 'patination' or otherwise the finish/polish section to see what you can do with heat, chemicals, etching and combinations of the three to change the color of your metals. brass and copper is a fairly standard combination, supposed to be pretty easy, and both metals are similarly malleable and anneal readily, giving the billet good working properties. perosonally i am still messing around with quarters, because as far as raw material prices go it is highly efficient, and even more so when you realize that quarters are precut to the same shape! they are also pretty forgiving in terms of cleaning. im not recommending you just use any old scratched/slagged/oxidized quarter, but they dont need to be so diligently prepared as new sheet metal does. out of curiousity, what kind of equipment are you currently using? forge? hand held torch? torque plates? large rock? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert A Rasch Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Large Rock!! LOL!!! Ummm... wait, I have a large piece of granite I've been saving... albert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinobi Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 i think thats tool #1 in the 'what do i need to start blacksmithing' sticky in the general subforum :) or close to the top at the very least... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
781 Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 If you want to use nickels put a layer of copper in between. Roof copper will result in the finished material being twice as much white than copper. I made a drop out punch to made copper slugs the right size for the nickels. You can also work the billet on ege but only while hot to draw out stock to make braclets ect. Fuze the quarters flat with torck plates flatten slightly then reheat and work on edge. If it starts to come apart reheat and work on the flat again to refuze Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinobi Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 remember: only use pre-1984 pennies, if you go that route :) that zinc core is bad news on all fronts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zach124816 Posted February 1, 2013 Author Share Posted February 1, 2013 im using a ratchet coal forge. i had trouble getting heat up i put my "oven" i call it on top. (cut the bottom off a 20# propane tank put a door on the side and cut the top off after i saw how much of a vent i needed) that worked pretty well i can see i need a fire brick. i made 2 torque plates and i think i like the squarish one with four bolts better than the longer with 2. i tried in a vice and with a hammer. i think it worked better with a hammer. my anvil is a 10x11x4 block of mild steel from the barn i don't know what it was. polish on a 1x30 belt sander. my biggest problem is its all outside and i dont have tongs yet. using channel locks but i think they work great for Quarters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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