This is my second attempt at welding up a damascus billet and as you can see from the pictures there is not much definition between layers. The materials used are 1095 and 15n20 but I suspect that the guy I ordered from gave me all the same steel. Can someone else validate that or tell me what I might be doing wrong? Thanks guys

 

These are samples from two different billets

 

 

 

Can you explain your surface treatment so far?

Looks to me like you need to polish and etch before you can pass judgement.  I can make out definite layers in the billet, I'll bet you will be amazed when you etch it.

this is with an etch

In your pictures i see a lot of contrast. When I buy those steels I buy one thicker,,the HC and the one with nickel in it thinner,,I expect the HC to etch dark and the nickel bearer to not darken much at all..That is wot i see in your pictures. in the knife chat last night I posted a pic of a couipon much like your first one , I used 1084 and 15N20. Yoiu can find that chat review in this section under advaned knife making.201.

And keep in mind that all Hc steel etch,,to me , a lot  nicer and sharper when they are heat treated.

i polished them to a 220 grit finish and then etched them in 50/50 ferric chloride and water for about 10 minutes both materials started out at 1/16th of an inch thick and to me it looks like the bright layers are only at the weld lies between each layer. The contrast in the pictures is much more visible than in person

I'll try quenching the small piece and see what happens

oh I should also say that the top picture is 2 layers of 15n20 to 1 layer of 1095

i am having trouble with that top pic being two layers of 15 N 20 and one of 1095, 1095 etches dark the other bright,,,,
In any case you need help with how to etch: that is a farily high ratio of etchant,,when you use it that strong it leaves a little big of a dirty surface after  a short time and stops etching,,,,every ten minutes or so you need to remove the piece and clean it with water, rub the surface with some fine wet or dry,,,clean it with windex, wash with water and return to the etchant. another ten minutes and do the same...after three or four times you should be able to clean with windex, rinse with water and see a contrast.
It is hard for me to answer questions when you do not provide enough information. Fill us in more so we know wot is going on....
i use about one third pcb and two thirds water.

I would expect to see more contrast with the 15n20 at that stage of a billet, after etch. Are the thin lines in the top pic the 'interweld' layers ? (ie the funny decarb / flux lines?)

 

Just to note that I have not actually welded with 1095 (usually used 20C) - but im guessing it should be similar in contrast.

 

Like others have said, try heat treating a bit, etch, and make sure the scuz is well cleaned off before making a deffinate call on it !

 

Neat looking welding by the way :D

thinking about this one from about an hour after you postred.  I have done a few billets, and it really does look like the same steels, with de-carb lines. where did you get these raw steels from? some places are not  always straight up about what they sell. others are 100%

thank you for all of the replies! I will heat treat and etch as Rich says and let you guys know what happens.

John, I am pretty sure those bright lines are "interweld" lines. Thank you for the compliment on my welds too I am very happy to hear that they look good  :)

 

Steve, I got these metals from rakerknives.com from Ray Kirk. I just ordered some new steel from Jantz which is due here Thursday. I'll weld up a billet of that and then compare the two before I send Ray a message

I hear Ray is straight up,  but even I have had steels get mixed up (once an apprentice decided to clean the shop and re stacked ALL tools steel by SIZE) mistakes happen

That's good to hear, I didn't think he did it on purpose something might have just got mixed up like you said. We'll see!

Imho, a lot of times those lines pretty much disappear after heat treating and etching. I don't know why, but they do. Please send pics before and after.

Thanks for your post and effort. We can all learn.

john

I buy all my steel from Ray as well. Never had an issue with what he sends me! I have had easy half a dozen orders from him. I etch in a 3:1 ferric solution 5-10 minutes at a time and sand with 1200 between etches. Depending on how much contrast I'm after I may etch 4-5 times before I'm happy with results.

hey guys sorry I took so long to get back to you but here is the billet after polishing to 600 grit and etching. It's definitely the same steel.

 

Cut a piece off and harden it,,then etch


Depending on how it looks,,move on with billet or send the sample to Ray with anote telling wot was done in all steps.

sorry, this has been hardened

As thick as those layers are and on end I'm not sure you will see a lot of difference anyway. Why are you etching the end of a straight weld billet? I would draw it out, re-stack, repeat, until you are at a couple hundred layers, forge a knife, then etch. Even if they are the same steel you will get some pattern if just from the de-carb lines, like with cable.

It is the rate the steel etches that brings out the pattern, so the nickel alloy etches more slowly and stands a little higher. I don't know that that would be obvious with pieces that are so thick.

Was there a reason you thought they are the same from the start? usually different steels are marked differently, usually with a different color on the end of the bar. If they were not marked I would call your guy and ask. Either way I would forge out the steel, good practice if nothing else.

With one of the steels containing nickel, there should been a marked contrast even on the end grain. I would be reluctant to spend more effort on this.

:(

 

shame.

 

dont be disheartened, stick with it !

thanks guys, I ordered some 15n20 from Jantz supply and made up another billet with this steel (1095 I think) here are the results... It's a Pi pendant that I made for a friend who just got a job as a math teacher

 

 

It is clear that there is no 15n20 in the other billet

Great work and thanks fo the update,,,,

very nice

thanks for the compliments and thank you for your help with polishing and etching. Very much appreciated!!

The 15N20 and 1095 I get from Ray can be identified.....The 15N20 has lines across the length of the pieces and the 1095 has lines running with the length of the pieces. If this is confusing I can take a few pics of what I have in the shop tonight and post here. This may be of help to you in this dilemna! Also the 1095 pieces I found to be smoother......let me know.