Frosty Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 I know we've discussed and shown how to's for Russian/one piece roses and I've done a couple hours looking but haven't had much luck finding a how to. Deb's oldest son got married for the last time a few weeks ago and brought Deb to Sisters Oregon for the event. Tom and Cheryl are both into [pine cones so I want to make them a pine cone door knocker. I know someone here's adapted the russian rose technique to pine cones. A friend and I spent a good 5-6 hours trying to get a start and only figured out a few ways that won't work to make a one piece pine cone- rose. So, if someone would kindly give me a hand I'd sure appreciate it. Heck I'm not even sure what size stock to get. My lazy soul would prefer to start with rectangular stock than forge sq. or rd. to rectangular. we were experimenting with 1/8"x3/4" and it needs to be more stout. I'm thinking 1/4"x1". I'm using ponderosa pine cones as a model because they're fatter than long. I'm bearing in mind the Ponderosa part is just what it said on the bag of cinnemon scented pine cones from Fred Meyers. I could sure use some direction, it's really save me time and effort figuring it out myself. Thanks in advance. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wpearson Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 try this http://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/15926-rail-road-spike-rose/?hl=%2Brussian+%2Brose#entry160942 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 http://www.iforgeiron.com/gallery/image/21172-pinecone-door-knocker/ http://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/15540-pine-cones-wip/ Either there isn't much or my google-fu is weak today. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Deke Weedow cam up with this one years ago. Cut out a piece of 1/8" thick plate like the drawing. If you need a number of them laser cutting works best. See drawing. Then hammer out the end on each piece like the seeds on a pine cone. Weld one end to a 1/4" to 5/16" dia. rod. Heat up the whole cut out piece and wrap edgewise around the rod. There you have a pine cone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Not one piece. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3UjV1BxErc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-aYj_gEbKw Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted December 28, 2012 Author Share Posted December 28, 2012 Hmmmm. I don't know what's going on but I can't download a youtube for nothing. I found most of these sites searching but none I could download. I'm not looking for the stack of petal blanks over a pistol method, done that one, I'm looking for a little learning curve action. I'm looking for a how to for the russian rose technique. The one I've been able to find has the smith hammering sq. stock to rectangular, then incising, forming, cutting the petals, ovulate thingies. I'm far too lazy to hand forge a shape I can buy for the same money/lb. The problem Sean and I were running into was rolling it up and not kinking, bending, twisting and other similar distortions. I tried my scrolling tongs, scrolling forks, working over a mandrel, and had our best luck bending it out of a piece of tubing with pliers. Using the tubing to hold the unrolled section and rolling with pliers. The tube worked best but still not satisfactory. Any working techniques? Thoughts, ideas? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yesteryearforge Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Frosty We like unsucessfull photos too :) That way when you get it figured out it shortens our learning curve . Actually my learning curve is more like a circle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McPherson Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 FABA (Florida) has a huge searchable database of "How-to-do-it" articles, plus all their old newsletters are on line. A real treasure trove. They only have one for pine cones, a roll-up version from the August 2006 newsletter. Sounds like what you are looking for. http://www.blacksmithing.org/CB-Archive/2006/2006-08-cb.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOblacksmith0530 Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 I haven't tried it yet but I would think you have to start at the tip of the cone and wrap to the base with the solid edge at a slight angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted December 29, 2012 Author Share Posted December 29, 2012 Frosty We like unsucessfull photos too :) That way when you get it figured out it shortens our learning curve . Actually my learning curve is more like a circle All my unsuccessful photos didn't come out. <grin> I'll post some as soon as I find out if the pine cones were actually unsuccessful. I don't know enough about the technique to judge. I had my computer guru friend out and after scrubbing my comp of Adobe I can view .pdf files and am studying the process. The FABA Newsletter how to isn't quite what I (THINK) I'm looking for but I'm finding out I don't know enough to determine even that. I sure wish I'd known pine cones was going to be so much fun, I'd started this curve sooner. My MOJO must be returning, I'm actually wanting to hit the shop, light the barrel stove and do . . . Stuff. since the accident I sorely miss wanting to do stuff. I'm even starting to come up with projects as excuses to light the forge. Feels good, REAL GOOD, better than I have in a long while. <BFG> Frosty The Lucky. I haven't tried it yet but I would think you have to start at the tip of the cone and wrap to the base with the solid edge at a slight angle. Seems logical to me too. I'll let you know how it works. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yesteryearforge Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Good to hear the itch is returning No better way to scratch it than with a hammer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 1, 2013 Author Share Posted January 1, 2013 You got that right! Sean and I spent about 4 hours trying to get that pine cone, Sunday, and at least discovered what we were doing wrong. Well a major mistake anyway. We were being too sloppy cutting the ovate petals or whatever they're called. We were letting the chisel, hardy and set nick into the back. ANY difference in the thickness of the part to be turned (I'm calling it the "spine" for conversations sake) makes an even coil a real pain. Thin spots or nicks and it breaks and I don't think using a torch will make enough difference. I'm thinking of either using my band saw, set to the proper depth or maybe come up with a kiss block for the hot set. The advantage of kiss blocks is they'll hold the stock and free a hand. Hot cutting from the edge shapes the petal thingies nicely. Fullering the face at the boundries of the petals goes a long ways to shaping the upper profile. Again, fullering a tapering groove in the face has to stop at a consistent place at the spine or the coil will be wonky. Another thought rather than kiss blocks would be a hack with a stop and index pin. The stop on the hack is nothing more than a shoulder that stops the blade from going farther than wanted. The index pin is attached to the side and when placed against the edge or in the last cut places the edge at a consistent distance. This would almost undoubtedly work best in the power hammer. Making special tooling isn't usually a profitable exercise in a one off situation but I've gone several attempts past the "one" off category. Then there's the thought, pine cone what evers may be good sellers. I don't really want or need to become a professional smith but it's always a treat to have a hobby that pays it's own way, even in part and a little extra walking around money would be nice. <grin> Speaking of mojo. Yesterday was Deb's birthday and I made something special for dinner. Well, something I haven't made in I can't say how long. chicken Cordon Blue isn't on my regular menu, such as it is. I didn't want to fry it so laid the packed breasts in a cake pan, surrounded by thick sliced russet potatoes and a little olive oil. The gal at the olive/cheese bar and I chat now and again so asking her what kind of Swiss cheese to use turned out swell. New soft Swiss is a milder flavor and melts well. I used procuitto rather than ham and added garlic butter. Turned out better than I expected. I knew the cheese, butter and Evoo were going to mix and flavor the potatoes but OoWHEE! Seems maybe my taste buds and brain are getting new paths mapped out. Seriously, it's been three+ years since things have tasted or smelled right. Things still don't smell and taste like they used to or I remember them but I'm starting to be able to know what's going to taste right together. If Shakey's hadn't taken the term I'd call last night's taters Mojo Potatoes. <BFG> Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 here you are frosty - just came across these and thought of you - probably no good by now, you done it i expect :) but maybe of some future use :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 I have a bluepirnt of a pinecone made similar to a russian rose, if you message me with your email address I will send it to you. Woody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gearhartironwerks Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 That's pretty much the Deke Wedow pine cone from a laser cut blank. Deke developed and dem'oed it at Tom Clarks' shop in 2002. Credit to him. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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