WraithsNinja Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 I have heard some folks take their blades out of the temper oven and let them cool slowly to achieve temper. And I have heard others pull their blades out and quench. My question is is their any advantages to either process? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 One is faster than the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 It almost seems like you are confusing some things here,,,I apologize if i read this wrong,,however i do not have the time to spend an hour or two helping you out with this,,,but there is information on this site that will clear it up for you...Check into the heat treat stickies... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 They achieve temper when they hit tempering temperature in the oven. Very different from hardening where they generally must be quenched to harden---except for "air hardening steels" that actually "quench" in air! Also tempering temps are generally below 1000 deg F and hardening temps above 1500 deg F Both hardening and tempering are methods used in Heat Treating of steel which can include things like normalization or annealing as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WraithsNinja Posted October 24, 2012 Author Share Posted October 24, 2012 I'm refering to once they have achived let's say 400 Degrees some then let it cool naturaly and some say quench it again in let's say water to freeze the steel at that temper. I have looked a while and haven't found anything that really said what the difference was so I have turned to the wealth of knowledge that is the forum :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 No difference it's the max tempering temp and cycles that can make a difference, no way to "freeze" a steel at a temper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WraithsNinja Posted October 25, 2012 Author Share Posted October 25, 2012 That's what I thought, but I wanted to check, thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccustomknives Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I think most would tell you not to quench a blade a tempering temps as this can cause stresses within the blade. Take your time, I set mine on wood to cool slowly. It's when you get in a hurry that problems rear their ugly head. :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WraithsNinja Posted October 25, 2012 Author Share Posted October 25, 2012 Now that I think about it when I have seen people temper with a tourch is usualy when I see them quench. I use the oven when I do it ( the wife loves it when I put my projects in the oven lol). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Make sure you use vegetable oil for the oil quenches; less loss of temper by the wife! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McClellan Made Blades Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 It looks like this question is almost answered here already, but, I'm curious about what type of steel you're using. For 10XX Steels, my favorite, I get from Aldo Bruno, the New Jersey Steel Baron, ( I need to check on him and see if Sandy didn't drowned him), it's 1084 with a little Vanadium added, I'm sure the knife makers on here probably either use him, know him personally or have at least heard of him and his steel. My HT recipe for it, is so simple, I do have a kiln, which makes things easier, but it isn't necessary with 1084, you can get just as good a HT with a forge, if I'm running short on time, or if I haven't used that method in a while, I will HT a 1084 blade that way. Taking It to non magnetic in my forge and then letting it soak a little longer to make sure it is thoroughly heated all the way through, this is the same point it comes out of the kiln, into the quench oil. I use DT-48, from Maxim Oil, they not only sell this oil to us knifemakers the guy that I talked to there, Lee Neves, actually MADE IT FOR US! I have used it for 1070 1084, 1095, and W-2, I think that's all of the steels I've used with it, if you want a faster oil, heat the oil with a piece of steel that I throw in the kiln right before I put the knife in, which is what I do with 1084, a put that piece of steel in the oil first then grab my blade by the tang with tongs, and into the oil tip first, and here is the most important part of this process, once it's in tip first, I agitate it back and forth, that is tip straight up then butt of the blade, straight back. I agitate it fairly aggressively, without spilling or splashing any oil out. Now here is where some folks have different opinions, I've seen and done it both ways. But I prefer to check the edge with a file first, I may clean the blade up a little bit as I clay coat every knife I make. But I don't dilly dally around, after I get done with what I wanted to do I get it into the (kitchen) oven that was preheated to the correct temps. I can't remember off the top of my head but I think the tempering temp is (around) 450 degrees. (that's fahrenheit for our foreign Blade Brothers!), I believe that I do this 2 times for 2 hours, depending on the purpose of the blade, I use 1084 for my big choppers, and I like to dial the Rc down some, so it's not so hard. Now, I have heard of quenching during tempering, but I don't recall where i heard it, I want to say I read it somewhere, the name that comes to mind that may have been associated with it might have been something like Richard or Richards, maybe Richardson...heck it could be Johnson with my memory, I figured that my process is giving me great results and that it didn't need to be monkeyed with. As long as you don't go side to side during the quench and you don't get it too thin during forging and/or grinding, you should have zero problems with warping or bending, well, that's my experience, I hope this helps someone, and since I'm the new guy here, I will go ahead and introduce myself, my name is Rex McClellan (Made Blades), I live in the great State of Alabama, I've been making knives for 4 yrs now, I still consider myself a Newb, there is so much to learn, so many different skills to master, it's an elusive creature, but the perfect blade is my goal, I enjoy teaching what I do know, and will help anyone I can. If I know the answer, to any questions through experience, I will say that, if it is something I've seen somewhere, or read about, I'll indicate that as well, I have memory issues, but the things I do over and over will sometimes get stuck up there, if I can't remember I'll let you know that I need to get to my notebooks, or my books that I have acquired, and do use quite a bit, I still check the programs in my kiln's computer, because I have to be sure of what I'm doing, so I don't make a mistake. Being dain brammaged isn't funny stuff, until you are faced with it, then you..., or should I say I did choose to make fun of myself, it was a tough time back then, when I had to go through brain surgery, I was headed to the corner rocking and slobbering until I decided to laugh about it, I laughed all the way through it, 11 years later I'm still laughing at myself, it kinda helps with the frustration, as the memory issues are the only remaining problems I have from the surgery. Memory is something you take for granted until you literally, can't remember breakfast, or what you were about to do. I think everyone can relate to this, it's like when you walk into a room to do or get something and you can't recall what it was, it's like that for me all the time. Except mine goes as far back as my childhood, both long term and short term memory was affected, BUT, I'm still ABOVE GROUND! So I ain't' complaining!!!! Just kinda letting yall know how it is for me, and when I try to explain something, my posts tend t get a litle long.,..., see that was a joke, my posts turn into friggin Novels!!!! So if y'all can just bear with me, I'm sure I can be helpful to the group. With all of that said, this looks like a great group with lots of knowledgeable folks on it, looking forward to seeing what all I can learn from y'all, Have a Great Day! Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaye olszewski Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 I have heard some folks take their blades out of the temper oven and let them cool slowly to achieve temper. And I have heard others pull their blades out and quench. My question is is their any advantages to either process? Thanks From my knowledge, when something like a steel or iron blade is taken out of a forge at high temperatures and is given and extended time to cool it softens the metal. That why some blacksmiths will let their blade cool naturally for an entire day or so as to soften it enough to apply a good sharpen before actually performing the final quenching to finish the blade... That’s just to my knowledge though, I could be very well wrong... I hear though extended cooling hardens metals like copper. While cooling them rapidly however with a quench or such will actually cause the metal to soften. So different alloys can possibly behave in any number of varied ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metal99 Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 When it comes to tempering it really doesn't matter if you let them cool naturally or quench it. Your tempering temps are no where near hot enough to cause you problems with a quench. I let mine air cool but it really doesn't matter. If quenching after tempering ever did cause a problem then that problem was already in the steel, like a small crack from the hardening quench or forging to cold. Just my thoughts on this. I am still a nube lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don A Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 The only reason I ever had for quenching during temper is when I am using a torch or similar heat source and watching the colors run from spine to edge. The heated spine, if it's thick enough, can store heat and continue to push it toward the edge after the edge is judged to be good. Same holds true for a thick bodied chisel or axe. I might want to stop the edge at bronze or near-purple, but the resevoir of heat in the thick section will push it past if I don't stop it. Hope that make sense. When using something with a heat control (oven, etc.), I just turn it off and let it cool on its own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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